dcblegal - Update following hearing

Redx

No there are no templates , but you can adapt from other previous posts made by victims or the replies to victims , or look at the example of a SAR in the newbies FAQ sticky thread

Seeing as you are not the registered keeper of because it's a business registration and not private , the SAR may be more difficult or not available to a business , it's for private individuals AFAIK

You asked about a SAR without telling us of the business complication , GDPR is complicated and your job as a business is to know these things , or do specific research , preferably when the NTK PCN arrived last year

My advice so far was if you were a private individual , as a registered keeper , not advice for a business

I won't be elaborating on that aspect , but feel free to read similar threads on here where a business was involved

This is not a legal aid forum , it's a consumer rights forum , businesses are more complicated , as are the issues and laws etc

landylife

Sorry, maybe i wasn't clear just now.  I am a private individual, and the car i pay a salary contribution for.  When the PCN came thru, it went directly to the car scheme team.  They asked if i would "appeal" it or pay it.  Obviously i planned to appeal/complain on it, so as such all communication from Bank came directly to my home address.
So...i don't hold the V5C, but i am the borrower of the vehicle under a loan agreement with the registered owner.

Redx

So it's a lease vehicle and you are lessee

At the time it happened , did your company name you as lessee to bank ?? Yes or no ?

If yes , did Bank send you an NTH , h for hirer , with your name and address on it ?? Yes or no ?

If yes , did it include a copy of any lease agreement ? Yes or no ?

Did you as lessee appeal to bank at the time ? Last year ? Yes or no ?

Was the driver revealed to Bank at the time or since ? Yes or no ?

If the NTH was appealed to Bank and rejected , was a popla appeal made ? Yes or no ??

If yes , what was the outcome ??

All the above was what should have happened , except for not naming the driver , I suspect some or all were not done , ending up with this legal quagmire of yours due to burying your head in the sand and it now being harder to deal with , that's my suspicions here having commented on numerous other hire and lease and company vehicle threads over the years

landylife

Redx said:

So it's a lease vehicle and you are lessee

At the time it happened , did your company name you as lessee to bank ?? Yes, but only so that i can deal with it directly, otherwise the company can't do anything with it.

If yes , did Bank send you an NTH , h for hirer , with your name and address on it ?? Yes.

If yes , did it include a copy of any lease agreement ? No not in what i received in mail - Bank stated on the NTH that Enclosed would be copy of 
(1) Statement signed by vehicle hire firm that the vehicle was on hire to under a hire agreement (2) Hire agreement (3) State of liability (4) Notice to Keep served on Hire company
The company i worked for enclosed a copy to Bank from the looks of the email copy, but i didn't get it.

Did you as lessee appeal to bank at the time ? Last year ? No - no contact from my part has been made with Bank.

Was the driver revealed to Bank at the time or since ? Yes at the time when my company moved liability.

If the NTH was appealed to Bank and rejected , was a popla appeal made ? No - i didnt action the Bank correspondance.

If yes , what was the outcome ??

All the above was what should have happened , except for not naming the driver , I suspect some or all were not done , ending up with this legal quagmire of yours due to burying your head in the sand and it now being harder to deal with , that's my suspicions here having commented on numerous other hire and lease and company vehicle threads over the years

Comments above!

Redx

Ok , the driver aspect is unclear because you have not contacted Bank ( very foolish to ignore because it's odd to this )

Your company can only name you as hirer or as lessee , not as driver !!

The only persons who can name the driver are the Driver and any actual witness like a passenger

So if you haven't already named the driver , then Bank do not know who was driving , they can make assumptions , as can the lease company , as can I  , but that is all they are , assumptions , not facts

I am going to assume that Bank do not know who was driving , so POFA must apply , I am going to assume that you were wrong in saying that the company named the driver because they cannot name the driver , they were not present , not a witness to it

POFA states you should have received copies of the lease agreement with the NTH , you say you did not , so that is a POFA failure by Bank , an admitted driver does not have that protection , you as lessee do !!

So as you have an NTH in your own name , email a SAR to the DPO at Bank , attaching 2 recent redacted copies of utility bills , as proof of I D under the GDPR law , for you as a data subject , to obtain copies of all documents and paperwork in your name , including the NTH , the lease docs , pictures etc

I have already told you what to do about the LBC from DCBL

landylife

Thanks Redx.
Correct, i only informed my company to transfer liability to myself/home address, but in no contact from me did i admit to being the driver.  My company named me as the driver, but as you stated, they were not in a position to do this, only name as Hirer.
Next steps for me:

1. Bank - SAR to DPO at Bank as you stated, assume there is rough template i can use somewhere?
2. DCBL - deny the alleged debt and telling them to place it on hold whilst you seek debt management advice

Thanks so much for the help, if you could link to any templates i can use as baselines that would be fab.

Redx

landylife said:

Thanks Redx.
Correct, i only informed my company to transfer liability to myself/home address, but in no contact from me did i admit to being the driver.  My company named me as the driver, but as you stated, they were not in a position to do this, only name as Hirer.
Next steps for me:

1. Bank - SAR to DPO at Bank as you stated, assume there is rough template i can use somewhere?
2. DCBL - deny the alleged debt and telling them to place it on hold whilst you seek debt management advice

Thanks so much for the help, if you could link to any templates i can use as baselines that would be fab.

Correct , there is no way your company could stand up in court and state you drove that vehicle when the incident occurred , they would be lying because they were not present

1 , there is the typical legal beagles template linked in the newbies FAQ sticky thread

You can learn to use the forum , I am on a tablet so won't be linking anything , get on a laptop and find the info , useful practice for when the court claim arrives in a few weeks time , because you will need plenty of practice 😜

2 , correct , read other recent examples in other dcbl an b w legal threads for guidance

Ps , this would have been an easy win at Popla last year , due to POFA , so a missed opportunity

landylife

Its only happened this year, so maybe less of an easy win via popla/pofa.
I'll get onto the templates asap, i've got the complaint out with landowner and MP also, so few distributions out there already.

nosferatu1001

Hirer / lessee is a doddle at POPLA, because no PPC ever gets the requirements of para 13 and 14 right. 

landylife

I take it that a POPLA is out of the option now due to the LBC.