Neon Reef - any views?

Telegraph_Sam

I don't myself see what difference there is between this situation and "normal" ongoing commercial transactions where payment in advance is not specifically demanded (my water supply for example). "Swings" between being in credit and in debit are commonplace and I don't see why the rules applying to one do not apply to the other. I would myself be more worried about a large credit balance being swallowed up if the company went bust, compared with having to budget for a catch up payment later in the day. What constitutes a "large" balance seems to depend on which side of the fence you are on. The obvious solution would be to make manual top-up payments - not a huge task - if and when required to keep the account somewhere near zero throughout.

greenguppie

Bacman said:

NR do offer single tariff on E7 users, I know someone with this, they emailed NR before signing up and asked for that.

It seems this information is at best possibly out of date, or even misguided as explained today in  another thread here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78604521/#Comment_78604521

It seems to refer to January, when NR didn't even offer a dual rate tariff for E7 meter users; everyone was only offered a single rate

That situation has now changed.

SPOWER

Waiting on 2 refunds and they have switched off live chat.  Don't respond to emails either.  Hashtag NOT HAPPY

Bacman

greenguppie said:

Bacman said:

NR do offer single tariff on E7 users, I know someone with this, they emailed NR before signing up and asked for that.

It seems this information is at best possibly out of date, or even misguided as explained today in  another thread here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78604521/#Comment_78604521

It seems to refer to January, when NR didn't even offer a dual rate tariff for E7 meter users; everyone was only offered a single rate

That situation has now changed.

I did say it was January... ok, not relevant now perhaps but was then

niktheguru

brewerdave said:

I gave NR my actual usage when I joined in February (no cheating!!) but they set the DD a bit lower than the calculated one twelfth of annual usage .
Now rather than being ~ 1 month in credit ,I'm actually a few ££s in debit at the latest statement after 8 months. Nothing yet about increasing the DD or a one off payment. What is other's experience in these circumstances?

I actually disagree completely with greenguppie here.
If you are in a small modest debit with your supplier I would do nothing. The most important thing is to keep an eye on your account and budget for the short fall that you will need to pay back at some point. Ensure you are able to afford the payment when required.

It is hard enough getting credit balances from these smaller companies and lots of them are going bust and the solr process is a slow one to get your money back. Why build up credit unnecessarily with them? Ideally you want to keep it as close to breakeven as you can.

Obviously if they ask you for the balance then pay it, if the debit value gets extravagant (like over 100 pounds) then offsetting it with a payment is the right thing to do, but a small modest debit is fine in my opinion.

Telegraph_Sam

I agree. The problem is the opposite - when as frequently happens the company uses the "increased winter usage" argument to D/D up the credit balance to unrealistic levels as a means to help their cash flow and liquidity. It seems to be a grey area the extent to which the customer can resist this and how.

greenguppie

niktheguru said:

brewerdave said:

I gave NR my actual usage when I joined in February (no cheating!!) but they set the DD a bit lower than the calculated one twelfth of annual usage .
Now rather than being ~ 1 month in credit ,I'm actually a few ££s in debit at the latest statement after 8 months. Nothing yet about increasing the DD or a one off payment. What is other's experience in these circumstances?

I actually disagree completely with greenguppie here.
If you are in a small modest debit with your supplier I would do nothing. The most important thing is to keep an eye on your account and budget for the short fall that you will need to pay back at some point. Ensure you are able to afford the payment when required.

It is hard enough getting credit balances from these smaller companies and lots of them are going bust and the solr process is a slow one to get your money back. Why build up credit unnecessarily with them? Ideally you want to keep it as close to breakeven as you can.

Obviously if they ask you for the balance then pay it, if the debit value gets extravagant (like over 100 pounds) then offsetting it with a payment is the right thing to do, but a small modest debit is fine in my opinion.

Well I posted an awful lot of advice to @brewerdave and so it is interesting to note you "disagree completely" with me here.

Presumably you disagree with my comment that NR currently charge a 33% premium for the initial 6 months? (and then 33% less for the next 6 months).

I didn't mention anything about building up credit unneccesarily. But as you "disagree completely" with me here, then presumably you don't understand the simply mathematics that if your annual cost is expected to be £x and you only make 12 monthly payments of £y (where y<x/12), then you will build up an increasing debit balance.
In fact, if you make 12 monthly payments of £x/12, and the usage is essentially flat thoughout the year as @brewerdave claims, then you would "keep it as close to breakeven as you can"

Remember, a term you expressly agree to when you apply to join NR is that you will always maintain your account in credit.
So presumably you feel it is fine to deliberately break a contractual agreement?

I could go on, but...

Obviously I disagree with your opinions, but I will defend your right to state them.

molerat

Anyone who correctly manages their energy account should not be the least bit phased by a small - or even large - debit balance at any time of the year.  One of my suppliers allowed me to get around £700 in debit, worried, not in the least as the money was sat there in my account due to me knowing exactly how much energy I used - better me having it than them - and they then decided to take it back from me over another year. 

If NR want the money all they need to do is ask, it is not up to the customer to proactively make random payments into the account, but they seem to be incapable of correctly managing their financials - I have had £60 compo from their uselessness and my daughter owes them £56 from her 4 months closed account which they haven't bothered taking.

brewerdave

greenguppie said:

niktheguru said:

brewerdave said:

I gave NR my actual usage when I joined in February (no cheating!!) but they set the DD a bit lower than the calculated one twelfth of annual usage .
Now rather than being ~ 1 month in credit ,I'm actually a few ££s in debit at the latest statement after 8 months. Nothing yet about increasing the DD or a one off payment. What is other's experience in these circumstances?

I actually disagree completely with greenguppie here.
If you are in a small modest debit with your supplier I would do nothing. The most important thing is to keep an eye on your account and budget for the short fall that you will need to pay back at some point. Ensure you are able to afford the payment when required.

It is hard enough getting credit balances from these smaller companies and lots of them are going bust and the solr process is a slow one to get your money back. Why build up credit unnecessarily with them? Ideally you want to keep it as close to breakeven as you can.

Obviously if they ask you for the balance then pay it, if the debit value gets extravagant (like over 100 pounds) then offsetting it with a payment is the right thing to do, but a small modest debit is fine in my opinion.

Remember, a term you expressly agree to when you apply to join NR is that you will always maintain your account in credit.
So presumably you feel it is fine to deliberately break a contractual agreement?

Just rechecked the wording on the statement produced on 11th September - shows that I'm in debit by a few ££s but underneath it states "as you are making regular direct debit payments this statement is for information only and does not require payment.".
Nothing on the statement about increasing my DD or one off payments ,and nothing in my online account either.
I'll leave until October's reading is due - either they will react or I might (reluctantly) make a modest payment via their bank details page to push me back into credit when the statement is produced.
Looking back at previous statements, a couple have shown a debit only because the DD has not been credited altho taken on time.
Furthermore I don't want them to go to the wall - but in view of the recent failures I'm happier being in debit than having a sizeable credit balance !!

greenguppie

brewerdave said:

greenguppie said:

niktheguru said:

brewerdave said:

I gave NR my actual usage when I joined in February (no cheating!!) but they set the DD a bit lower than the calculated one twelfth of annual usage .
Now rather than being ~ 1 month in credit ,I'm actually a few ££s in debit at the latest statement after 8 months. Nothing yet about increasing the DD or a one off payment. What is other's experience in these circumstances?

I actually disagree completely with greenguppie here.
If you are in a small modest debit with your supplier I would do nothing. The most important thing is to keep an eye on your account and budget for the short fall that you will need to pay back at some point. Ensure you are able to afford the payment when required.

It is hard enough getting credit balances from these smaller companies and lots of them are going bust and the solr process is a slow one to get your money back. Why build up credit unnecessarily with them? Ideally you want to keep it as close to breakeven as you can.

Obviously if they ask you for the balance then pay it, if the debit value gets extravagant (like over 100 pounds) then offsetting it with a payment is the right thing to do, but a small modest debit is fine in my opinion.

Remember, a term you expressly agree to when you apply to join NR is that you will always maintain your account in credit.
So presumably you feel it is fine to deliberately break a contractual agreement?

Just rechecked the wording on the statement produced on 11th September - shows that I'm in debit by a few ££s but underneath it states "as you are making regular direct debit payments this statement is for information only and does not require payment.".
Nothing on the statement about increasing my DD or one off payments ,and nothing in my online account either.
I'll leave until October's reading is due - either they will react or I might (reluctantly) make a modest payment via their bank details page to push me back into credit when the statement is produced.
Looking back at previous statements, a couple have shown a debit only because the DD has not been credited altho taken on time.
Furthermore I don't want them to go to the wall - but in view of the recent failures I'm happier being in debit than having a sizeable credit balance !!

Thanks fine.

You originally posted inviting comments.

I posted my comments as I saw appropriate.

@niktheguru posted his comments where he started off "I actually disagree completely with greenguppie here"

I have posted above my comments about that.

You now have all the information to hand. It is, of course, entirely up to you what you decide to do having been provided the opposing views that you have.