Neon Reef - any views?

dbks

QrizB said:

dbks said:

elucidate said:

It's just been confirmed Bulb is going into special administration. Bulb will continue to run but be under the management of the administrators.

Perhaps Ofgem is mulling over putting us and all future failures into Bulb and dealing with all of them under one roof. 

If I were a creditor of the failed supplier, Bulb, the last thing I would expect any administartor to do would be to take on additional loss making customers, unless the administrator was sure by doing so, they could repay each and every penny of the estimated £625m  - £1billion  Bulb already owes.

The Special Administrator is, for most purposes, a new standalone energy company. It can take on Bulb, NR, whoever-comes-next and deal with all their creditors separately.

Bulb's creditors don't get a say.

Really? Do you have a source for this information?

What happens to Bulb Energy creditors???

According to Ofgem:

"The special administrator, unlike an ordinary administrator, has an obligation to consider consumers’ interests as well as creditors."

Nothing I can see about them setting up "a new standalone energy company"

Keep_pedalling

ivanleo said:

BUFF said:

dbks said:

BUFF said:

Deleted_User said:

Neon Reef must be the poison chalice. Ofgem usually like to announce these things late afternoon, so they can go home before the excrement hits the extractor, and spoil everyone’s evening. Allegedly. 

Tbh the customer profile for NR customers probably isn't attractive to other suppliers - I imagine that we are all savvy skinflints & very willing to jump to another supplier to save money so unlikely to stick around once things go back to normal. & in the meantime they would be making a loss on every one on the SVR ...

Do you really think so?
Based on the numerous posts by others in this very thread???

Haven't all the savvy skinflints already signed up to BG Zero Fixed Oct 2022 ?

Only time will tell if that was savvy or chasing fool's gold ... :P

If British Gas has induced someone to switch based on a promise of a given tariff, legally they cannot renege on that. They will know that if they were to try, they'd have an awful lot of ombudsman & small claims court cases to deal with.

I don’t think they have induced anyone. A hidden tariff that is not publicly advertised cant really be classed as an inducement. Companies are also not legally compelled to provide a product or service where they have made a genuine mistake.

BUFF

dbks said:

How much time do you think will be needed?

Let us not forget @Gerry1 may not have been the first to apparently declare they had signed to to the BG Zero Fixed Oct 2022, but I think he was the first to declare that he had done so by switching to British Gas (althought later clarified he switched via chat to their SVT with a promise that once complete, would be placed on the BG Zero Fixed Oct 2022 tariff... and it would be backdated)

That was over 7 weeks ago now.

I don't recall any of the earlier posters coming back and saying they had any issues yet either with their transfer

Several months. In a behemoth like BG it may take some time for something to be flagged up as erroneous & shutdown. Depending upon nos. it may be easier (certainly the best publicity-wise) for BG to just accept those who have managed to switch to that tariff before then rather than try to wriggle out. I imagine it's only people on MSE & similar sites that will know about this & even of those there will be people who are sceptical/unwilling to try so I imagine that it will be hundreds or thousands rather than tens of thousands.

On another matter NR  took my DD on time on the 15th & produced my statement today so the systems are obviously still working.

thozza

Ofgem appoints British Gas to take on customers of Neon Reef Limited and Social Energy Supply Ltd

Ofgem, the energy regulator, has appointed British Gas to take on supplying Neon Reef Limited and Social Energy Supply Ltd’s combined total of approximately 35,500 domestic customers following their announcement last week that they are ceasing to trade.

Published: 22 November 2021

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-british-gas-take-customers-neon-reef-limited-and-social-energy-supply-ltd

QrizB

dbks said:

QrizB said:

dbks said:

elucidate said:

It's just been confirmed Bulb is going into special administration. Bulb will continue to run but be under the management of the administrators.

Perhaps Ofgem is mulling over putting us and all future failures into Bulb and dealing with all of them under one roof. 

If I were a creditor of the failed supplier, Bulb, the last thing I would expect any administartor to do would be to take on additional loss making customers, unless the administrator was sure by doing so, they could repay each and every penny of the estimated £625m  - £1billion  Bulb already owes.

The Special Administrator is, for most purposes, a new standalone energy company. It can take on Bulb, NR, whoever-comes-next and deal with all their creditors separately.

Bulb's creditors don't get a say.

Really? Do you have a source for this information?

What happens to Bulb Energy creditors???

According to Ofgem:

"The special administrator, unlike an ordinary administrator, has an obligation to consider consumers’ interests as well as creditors."

Nothing I can see about them setting up "a new standalone energy company"

Did you read the MoU and Section 96 of the Energy Act 2011, or just the press release?

brewerdave

Oh God - I escaped BG in 2000 - never been tempted to go back - but now back with them by default!!

DiseasedBunny

thozza said:

Ofgem appoints British Gas to take on customers of Neon Reef Limited and Social Energy Supply Ltd

Ofgem, the energy regulator, has appointed British Gas to take on supplying Neon Reef Limited and Social Energy Supply Ltd’s combined total of approximately 35,500 domestic customers following their announcement last week that they are ceasing to trade.

Published: 22 November 2021

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-british-gas-take-customers-neon-reef-limited-and-social-energy-supply-ltd

Could have been a lot worse (addmittedly, could be better, but still...) - at least we arent chucked in wit this "bad bank" energy supplier

Patr100

thozza said:

Ofgem appoints British Gas to take on customers of Neon Reef Limited and Social Energy Supply Ltd

Ofgem, the energy regulator, has appointed British Gas to take on supplying Neon Reef Limited and Social Energy Supply Ltd’s combined total of approximately 35,500 domestic customers following their announcement last week that they are ceasing to trade.

Published: 22 November 2021

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/ofgem-appoints-british-gas-take-customers-neon-reef-limited-and-social-energy-supply-ltd

Thanks for that. Ofgem haven't at time of writing this updated their main page:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/check-whos-taken-over-your-energy-supply

So can we look up what tariff BG will specifically charge us (according to region) 
or is that still to be determined?

dbks

QrizB said:

dbks said:

QrizB said:

dbks said:

elucidate said:

It's just been confirmed Bulb is going into special administration. Bulb will continue to run but be under the management of the administrators.

Perhaps Ofgem is mulling over putting us and all future failures into Bulb and dealing with all of them under one roof. 

If I were a creditor of the failed supplier, Bulb, the last thing I would expect any administartor to do would be to take on additional loss making customers, unless the administrator was sure by doing so, they could repay each and every penny of the estimated £625m  - £1billion  Bulb already owes.

The Special Administrator is, for most purposes, a new standalone energy company. It can take on Bulb, NR, whoever-comes-next and deal with all their creditors separately.

Bulb's creditors don't get a say.

Really? Do you have a source for this information?

What happens to Bulb Energy creditors???

According to Ofgem:

"The special administrator, unlike an ordinary administrator, has an obligation to consider consumers’ interests as well as creditors."

Nothing I can see about them setting up "a new standalone energy company"

Did you read the MoU and Section 96 of the Energy Act 2011, or just the press release?

I read lots of things

e.g. Section 96 of the Energy Act 2011 states:

96Application of certain provisions of the Energy Act 2004 in relation to esc administration orders

(1)Sections 156 to 167 of, and Schedules 20 and 21 to, the Energy Act 2004 (special administration regime for energy licensees) apply in relation to an esc administration order as they apply in relation to an energy administration order within the meaning given by section 154(1) of that Act, but with the modifications set out in subsections (2) to (4).

(2)In the application of those provisions generally—

(a)for “energy administration”, in each place where it occurs, substitute “energy supply company administration”;

(b)for “a protected energy company”, in each place where it occurs, substitute “an energy supply company”.

(3)In the application of Schedule 20—

(a)in paragraph 32(d), for the words from “““energy administration application”” to “Energy Act 2004” substitute “““energy supply company administration application” means an application to the court for an energy supply company administration order under Chapter 3 of Part 3 of the Energy Act 2004, as applied by section 96 of the Energy Act 2011”;

(b)in paragraph 32(e), for “section 155 of the Energy Act 2004” substitute “section 95 of the Energy Act 2011”;

(c)in paragraph 36, for “section 154(4) of this Act” substitute “section 94(4) of the Energy Act 2011”;

(d)in paragraph 43, after “the Energy Act 2004” insert “and section 96 of the Energy Act 2011”;

(e)in paragraph 44(5), after “the Energy Act 2004” insert “and section 96 of the Energy Act 2011”;

(f)in paragraph 45, after “section 157(1)(e) of this Act” insert “as applied by section 96 of the Energy Act 2011”;

(g)in paragraph 47, after “Part 1 of this Schedule” insert “and section 96 of the Energy Act 2011”.

(4)In the application of Schedule 21—

(a)in paragraph 1(b), for “section 155(3)” substitute “section 95(3) of the Energy Act 2011”;

(b)in paragraph 12, for “section 155” substitute “section 95 of the Energy Act 2011”.

(5)Sections 171 and 196 of the Energy Act 2004 (interpretation) apply for the purposes of the application by subsection (1) of the provisions mentioned in that subsection, but with the modifications set out in subsection (6).

(6)In the application of section 171(1)—

(a)insert, at the appropriate places, the following definitions—

    ““energy supply company” has the meaning given by section 94(5) of the Energy Act 2011;”;

    ““energy supply company administration order” has the meaning given by section 94(1) of the Energy Act 2011;”;

    ““energy supply company administration rules” means rules made under section 411 of the 1986 Act by virtue of section 159(3) of this Act, for the purpose of giving effect to this Chapter as applied by section 96 of the Energy Act 2011;”;

    ““objective of the energy supply company administration” is to be construed in accordance with section 95 of the Energy Act 2011;”;

(b)in the definition of “energy administrator” for “section 154(2)” substitute “section 94(2) of the Energy Act 2011”;

(c)in the definition of “relevant licence” for “section 154(5)” substitute “section 94(5) of the Energy Act 2011”.

Not sure how any of that helps with the source of the information you posted.
Confused.com

ivanleo

Keep_pedalling said:

ivanleo said:

BUFF said:

dbks said:

BUFF said:

Deleted_User said:

Neon Reef must be the poison chalice. Ofgem usually like to announce these things late afternoon, so they can go home before the excrement hits the extractor, and spoil everyone’s evening. Allegedly. 

Tbh the customer profile for NR customers probably isn't attractive to other suppliers - I imagine that we are all savvy skinflints & very willing to jump to another supplier to save money so unlikely to stick around once things go back to normal. & in the meantime they would be making a loss on every one on the SVR ...

Do you really think so?
Based on the numerous posts by others in this very thread???

Haven't all the savvy skinflints already signed up to BG Zero Fixed Oct 2022 ?

Only time will tell if that was savvy or chasing fool's gold ... :P

If British Gas has induced someone to switch based on a promise of a given tariff, legally they cannot renege on that. They will know that if they were to try, they'd have an awful lot of ombudsman & small claims court cases to deal with.

I don’t think they have induced anyone. A hidden tariff that is not publicly advertised cant really be classed as an inducement. Companies are also not legally compelled to provide a product or service where they have made a genuine mistake.

It's an inducement to me, as I would have never considered British Gas otherwise. If we were talking about a single customer service agent going off on a frolic of his own then sure that might not bind British Gas, but that's clearly not the case here. There is more than enough information to support the view that those customer service agents who I and others have spoken to are acting within their authority as agents of British Gas.

Of course, it might be that someone higher up in management has made a "mistake", but that's not my problem. Otherwise NR could have just switched all our tariffs from 17p to 24p and say that the original tariff we signed up to was a "mistake". Indeed, any energy supplier could renege on their own tariffs if all they had to do is claim that there's been a "mistake".

The only circumstances where I can see a "mistake" defence working is where someone in customer services makes an actual mistake in acting beyond his authority or giving out the wrong information but even then, the mistake must be obvious. If the tariff were for 0.1p per unit that would obviously be a mistake, but in this instance there is no reason to hold that a mistake is obvious.

For one, British Gas is an energy generator so they are not tied to the spot wholesale price in the same way as the likes of Symbio or Neon Reef. Secondly, a company the size of British Gas is likely to hedge its position years in advance, it's likely the supplies for this tariff were forecast and hedged for months ago if not one or two years. I suspect British Gas are making a profit on this tariff.

Of course, some organisations protect themselves by putting a disclaimer on their emails and chat functions that says something like "I am not authorised to enter into any contract on behalf of (organisation name) and nothing I say can create a legally binding obligation", but there's nothing of the sort on the British Gas website so I have no reason to believe that the customer agent I chatted with was not authorised to offer me that tariff.