WTC with disability element

Icequeen1

Gellar9 said:

Compensation? Never going to happen. I think we should just hope that it gets sorted in a positive manner for us all. If it's a mistake and they haven't noticed a month after the mistake occurred, someone's head should roll. I know they are understaffed, but someone should have been on top of this, if it is a genuine mistake.
I'm cynical though. I'm sure many things are going unnoticed whilst the world focuses on Covid-19.

The problem is, bar the fact that the letter seems to be confusing because of the opening of 'your dla has stopped' - HMRC are acting within their compliance powers. They can ask people for evidence at any time and, during the renewal period, the burden of proof is on the claimant to prove their entitlement (during the year, after an initial award, that burden shifts). That is why the letter says they will stop payments if someone doesn't get in touch. However, legally the position is even more in HMRC's favour as from 6 April until the renewal is completed, there is technically no tax credit claim and no entitlement in legislation, HMRC are making provisional payments at their discretion which they can vary at will. 
Usually, their process involves sending a letter and allowing the person to put their position forward before a decision is made. I can only think that those whose payments stopped - the letter went missing. I have only ever seen HMRC remove elements once (having worked in tax credits since 2013) without contacting people and that was due to fraud.
So whilst they need to sort the wording in the letter out so it is less confusing, and the particular case with the missing letter needs some attention to see if a letter was issued etc..., beyond that they are acting within their powers and do often compliance check claims so I can't see why that part would be a mistake. This isn't the first time they have done this same exercise, in fact it happens most years but obviously not all claims are checked each time. 

Gellar9

Icequeen1 said:

Gellar9 said:

Compensation? Never going to happen. I think we should just hope that it gets sorted in a positive manner for us all. If it's a mistake and they haven't noticed a month after the mistake occurred, someone's head should roll. I know they are understaffed, but someone should have been on top of this, if it is a genuine mistake.
I'm cynical though. I'm sure many things are going unnoticed whilst the world focuses on Covid-19.

The problem is, bar the fact that the letter seems to be confusing because of the opening of 'your dla has stopped' - HMRC are acting within their compliance powers. They can ask people for evidence at any time and, during the renewal period, the burden of proof is on the claimant to prove their entitlement (during the year, after an initial award, that burden shifts). That is why the letter says they will stop payments if someone doesn't get in touch. However, legally the position is even more in HMRC's favour as from 6 April until the renewal is completed, there is technically no tax credit claim and no entitlement in legislation, HMRC are making provisional payments at their discretion which they can vary at will. 
Usually, their process involves sending a letter and allowing the person to put their position forward before a decision is made. I can only think that those whose payments stopped - the letter went missing. I have only ever seen HMRC remove elements once (having worked in tax credits since 2013) without contacting people and that was due to fraud.
So whilst they need to sort the wording in the letter out so it is less confusing, and the particular case with the missing letter needs some attention to see if a letter was issued etc..., beyond that they are acting within their powers and do often compliance check claims so I can't see why that part would be a mistake. This isn't the first time they have done this same exercise, in fact it happens most years but obviously not all claims are checked each time. 

I had my renewal form and confirmed everything online, even though it said I needn't do anything, I still confirmed.
I've sent my information with my form and included far more information than they required, offering them to talk on the phone to me, offered to be assessed etc. I'm not disputing their right to compliance check, i'm more disputing their reasoning, or as you say their wording, which has been sent to several people, which appears to be a mistake. I'd hope a government department would at least get something like this right.

The timing is strange too, not only during Covid-19 when they  are supposedly short staffed, but after a renewal. Surely they should check this before the renewal is sent out, in early-mid April?
As I say, i've no issues with a compliance check - i've had two in nearly seven years for differing reasons, I expect it and accept it, but I know they get decisions wrong and fear losing my WTC when i'm at my worst and not going to get any better.

Kitten347

Thanks Icequeen for that info.  I remember reading that if you received an A4 white envelope that meant you had to complete an annual review notice.  A5 brown envelope meant you had to check notice and only contact if there are any changes.  Does this still apply?.
My envelope was A5 brown, with no action needed, probably why I haven't got this letter others talk about? This annual review was dated 30/4/20. All looked fine, payments included the disability element.  However, as I've said, I went online and put in my actual earnings from 6/4/19-5/4/20.
That's when it all changed! Disability element was then withdrawn without telling me, payment for this just stopped.  This Saturday, 30th May, I've received a provisional tax credits award, this is dated 5/5/20 and has been sent because of a change of circumstances I've told them about - yes.....my earnings up to 5/4/20!
They've paid disability element up to 1/5/20 and then it stops.  On this form says "you work 16hrs a week, have a disability".
I'm totally confused and still have received no call back from them.  No idea what to do.

Icequeen1

Gellar9 said:

Icequeen1 said:

Gellar9 said:

Compensation? Never going to happen. I think we should just hope that it gets sorted in a positive manner for us all. If it's a mistake and they haven't noticed a month after the mistake occurred, someone's head should roll. I know they are understaffed, but someone should have been on top of this, if it is a genuine mistake.
I'm cynical though. I'm sure many things are going unnoticed whilst the world focuses on Covid-19.

The problem is, bar the fact that the letter seems to be confusing because of the opening of 'your dla has stopped' - HMRC are acting within their compliance powers. They can ask people for evidence at any time and, during the renewal period, the burden of proof is on the claimant to prove their entitlement (during the year, after an initial award, that burden shifts). That is why the letter says they will stop payments if someone doesn't get in touch. However, legally the position is even more in HMRC's favour as from 6 April until the renewal is completed, there is technically no tax credit claim and no entitlement in legislation, HMRC are making provisional payments at their discretion which they can vary at will. 
Usually, their process involves sending a letter and allowing the person to put their position forward before a decision is made. I can only think that those whose payments stopped - the letter went missing. I have only ever seen HMRC remove elements once (having worked in tax credits since 2013) without contacting people and that was due to fraud.
So whilst they need to sort the wording in the letter out so it is less confusing, and the particular case with the missing letter needs some attention to see if a letter was issued etc..., beyond that they are acting within their powers and do often compliance check claims so I can't see why that part would be a mistake. This isn't the first time they have done this same exercise, in fact it happens most years but obviously not all claims are checked each time. 

I had my renewal form and confirmed everything online, even though it said I needn't do anything, I still confirmed.
I've sent my information with my form and included far more information than they required, offering them to talk on the phone to me, offered to be assessed etc. I'm not disputing their right to compliance check, i'm more disputing their reasoning, or as you say their wording, which has been sent to several people, which appears to be a mistake. I'd hope a government department would at least get something like this right.

The timing is strange too, not only during Covid-19 when they  are supposedly short staffed, but after a renewal. Surely they should check this before the renewal is sent out, in early-mid April?
As I say, i've no issues with a compliance check - i've had two in nearly seven years for differing reasons, I expect it and accept it, but I know they get decisions wrong and fear losing my WTC when i'm at my worst and not going to get any better.

They do their compliance checks all the way through from 6 April and sometimes hold-off renewing claims until they complete them. Timing is in line with every other year - as is this exercise, it runs most years. 

Daftcat45

As I’m frantically searching for information, I keep ending up in different posts so sorry for that I’m not used to forums, I also received the same letter and under the same circumstances others , work 16 hours, A qualifying disability and claimed with Incapacity Benefit many years ago and continue to claim under i received the disability element the year before rule

I also phoned as I did not recognise the benefits they said had recently stopped and they told me to write a letter along with the form they sent for more information. That was 2 weeks ago and today I received a letter saying they have stopped my tax credits and are recovering an overpayment, basically everything I’ve had this year

I’ve just rang HMRC to try and find out what’s going on but they said they didn’t know and to ring back later in the week! the letter also says as i do not get tax credits anymore they want me to pay the whole amount now and will continue to recover the cash even whilst i appeal, or "whilst we are considering your reason" as they say , This is a nightmare i can’t afford

Icequeen1

Daftcat45 said:

As I’m frantically searching for information, I keep ending up in different posts so sorry for that I’m not used to forums, I also received the same letter and under the same circumstances others , work 16 hours, A qualifying disability and claimed with Incapacity Benefit many years ago and continue to claim under i received the disability element the year before rule

I also phoned as I did not recognise the benefits they said had recently stopped and they told me to write a letter along with the form they sent for more information. That was 2 weeks ago and today I received a letter saying they have stopped my tax credits and are recovering an overpayment, basically everything I’ve had this year

I’ve just rang HMRC to try and find out what’s going on but they said they didn’t know and to ring back later in the week! the letter also says as i do not get tax credits anymore they want me to pay the whole amount now and will continue to recover the cash even whilst i appeal, or "whilst we are considering your reason" as they say , This is a nightmare i can’t afford

You can appeal and they have to suspend recovery of any overpayment - but only once they have made an appealable decision. Have you renewed your tax credits? Have you received a decision notice for last year and this year? 

Daftcat45

I did receive the decision notices and everything was OK and has been since 2007 until now.  that’s what’s so confusing about this nothing has changed with my circumstances,  I never received the benefit they say has recently stopped and i never informed them of a change of circumstances as they say but when I phone they don’t seem to understand what’s happening and have never heard of the rule I’m claiming under, I keep saying but its in the help leaflet you sent me!

I can’t see that I’ve done anything wrong but this letter demanding payment had me very worried, but I’m happier now you say I can suspend payment thank you

Icequeen1

Daftcat45 said:

I did receive the decision notices and everything was OK and has been since 2007 until now.  that’s what’s so confusing about this nothing has changed with my circumstances,  I never received the benefit they say has recently stopped and i never informed them of a change of circumstances as they say but when I phone they don’t seem to understand what’s happening and have never heard of the rule I’m claiming under, I keep saying but its in the help leaflet you sent me!

I can’t see that I’ve done anything wrong but this letter demanding payment had me very worried, but I’m happier now you say I can suspend payment thank you

You must make sure you submit the WTC/AP form as an appeal and not the TC846 dispute form in order to get that suspension and make sure you specifically appeal both years. 

Kitten347

That's so worrying for you Daftcat, and for many of us in the same boat as you. Thank goodness for this forum and for people like Icequeen who can help.  I can only suggest you send letters/forms Recorded Delivery.  Make a note of calls made and if you have an online account and should go onto chat, print conversation out at the end.  Welfare Rights or even your MP might be able to help you.  Someone further back posted a link which was an interesting read, only for benefit advisors but seems we aren't the only ones having problems https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/16141/#76757

whizzywoo

This is a link to contact the Low Incomes Tax Reform Group
They do a lot of work regarding taxation and benefits for people on low incomes.  Plus there is a lot of info on their website. 

I think if that you all contact them regarding this problem it will speed up steps to getting it resolved.   

https://www.litrg.org.uk/contact-us