No return within 90 minutes PCN

Umkomaas

I will shortly be typing out and posting on here my letter of defence that I sent ( please bear with me as I have no laptop and have to use my phone ! )

Can you take decent (readable) photograph(s) and upload to the forum?  Save you fiddling about typing on your phone. 

Is it too late to send ES a SAR at this point

No, you need to see exactly what they hold on you?

Can I also send Gladstones a SAR request now and if so is it worth adding onto the request a note about the £60 abuse of process thing ?

Not sure what you think Gs will have on you that ES don't?  They won't pay any attention to any point you make about 'Abuse of Process'. 

Is it ok to do these by post ( either registered or certificate of posting) as I dont really want to be giving my email details to them unless absolutely forced to !

You should (as everyone should in my view) when dealing with a private parking charge, set up a 'throwaway' Gmail address, which means that neither the PPC, their debt collectors nor their solicitors can get to your day-to-day email address. Then when it's all over, you delete any link to the address and let it drift off into the ether. 

I have been looking and am struggling to find 'legal stuff' about charges relating to returning to a site.

You'll continue to struggle. There is no 'legal stuff' connected with it. It's just a further man-trap set by PPCs to catch more motorists for their own enrichment. There are so many potential variables that a 'no return within .... ' case will be one of the most difficult to prove - and remember, the proof must be delivered by them. 

Ralph-y

how new is your phone? does it have a stylus?

anything all readdy printed can be transferred to text on your phone with an OCR app

Ralph

go-on-then

umkomaas  thanks, I will try set up another email address. Unfortunately I dont have a legible copy of my defence that you would be able to read, I was ill at the time of doing it , couldnt get out anywhere to get a photocopy so had to just scribble down a copy for reference. (It totals 4  A4 pages, clearly and neatly written and in paragraphs ) I have patience so I will just crack on with doing it ! 
Ralphy-y   I sort of understand what you are saying but no dont have anything like that ( bit of a technophobe anyway tbh ) . It's a Samsung  J6
Thanks

Le_Kirk

go-on-then said:

Is it ok to do these by post ( either registered or certificate of posting) as I dont really want to be giving my email details to them unless absolutely forced to !  I am aware however if it is posted that they can say it was never received or refuse to sign for it so that's a difficult one really.

Registered post ceased to exist some years ago, there is something which gives you a signature but do NOT use it.  If they refuse to accept it, then they have proof of non-delivery - not what you want.  Just take a FREE certificate of posting and it is deemed delivered two days later.  Keep that certificate safe.

Redx

Never too late to email a SAR to the PPC

You can query the £60 charge as detailed in hundreds of posts by beamerguy , but expect Gladstone's to either fudge it or ignore

I would do as above and setup a fresh Gmail or Yahoo email address in your name specifically for this task , using it for spam etc when you sign up to other sites etc , so one for spam , your real email is exclusively for legitimate people and organisations

You won't find much legislation , definitely not until the Mhclg issue the new parking bill CoP

There are some legal precedents like Beavis , Jopson etc , plus the laws already passed , such as POFA  2012, the CRA 2015 and the EA 2010

Coupon-mad

You need to read other ES Parking cases that are ahead of you at WS stage.  This will help you prepare.  

Pretty sure that they don't comply with the POFA in their NTK wording, but the SAR will show you that document and then you can check it against the POFA 2012.  No reply telling us it does comply because it's a piece of paper headed 'NOTICE TO KEEPER' and no reply telling us you want a link to the POFA (please spare us).

Ralph-y

OK I was thinking that if you are OK with installing apps .. then a phone app to 'ocr handwriting

 to text'  may help .... never used one to do handwriting so cannot comment on a particular one .. google/android store brings up several

Ralph

go-on-then

This is a copy of my defence sent regarding a PCN / CCBC claim form  received for Accrington Multi story carpark

.Claim no xxxx
Issue date 09/03/20
Between
ES Parking Enforcement (claimant)
and xxxxxxx ( defendant)

DEFENCE

The claimant has not complied with practice direction on pre action protocol by not sending a letter before claim.

1)  With reference to the claim form dated 09/03/20-
In addition to the parking charge the claimant has artificially inflated the value of the claim by adding £60 contractual costs which have not actually been incurred by the claimant and which are all invented figures in an attempt to circumvent the small claims costs rules using double recovery. It is also noted that the final demand sent by ES Parking dated 25/10/18  states that the amount due was £125 - an increase from the £100 charge on the original PCN xxxx dated  28/08/18.    No reason or explanation is given as to how these further charges have been incurred. It is an abuse of process from the claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for a sum which it is not entitled to. The defendant has the reasonable belief that the claimant has not incurred £60 costs to pursue an alleged £100 debt. The maximum sum that may be recovered is the charge stated on the original PCN,  in this case £100.
A complaint will be made to the Solicitors Regulation Authority that ES Parking / Gladstones solicitors is artificially and knowingly inflating claims.

2) a)  The Particulars of Claim filed on the claim form dated 09/03/20 state -
The driver of the vehicle xxxx ( the 'Vehicle' ) parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage ( the 'Contract') at MultiStorey carpark,  Union Street, Accrington on xxxx this incurring the parking charge'. It does not state to which parking charge it is relating to. The claimant cannot produce, and has never produced,  evidence, photographic or otherwise, that the vehicle 'parked' in breach of said terms as no evidence exists. The allegation is denied.

b)  The reason of issue of the PCN xxxx dated 28/08/18 is given as - 
Vehicle returned within a no return period of 90 minutes.
This contradicts the particulars of claim filed on the claim form dated 09/03/20 xxxxxx

c)  ES Parking appeal rejection letter dated 20/09/18 states- 
Our records show that the parking charge notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in a way which breaches the Terms and Conditions of Parking.
Again, this is contradictory to the reason of issue of the PCN xxxxxx

3)  The claim form dated 09/03/20 states that 'Will Wareing' is the Claimants Legal Representative.
This gives no information as to who the person is or his position and gives a typed name and not his actual signature.

4)  Photographic evidence on PCN xxxx dated 28/08/18  is dark,  very poor quality and cannot be relied on. Only two pictures are shown and the times displayed do not give evidence that the vehicle returned to said carpark within a no return period of 90 minutes. The quality of evidence is insufficient to prove a claim.
There is no photographic evidence given of signage on PCN xxxx showing the alleged no return period of 90 minutes.

It is noted that excessive signage at the entrance to Accrington Multi storey carpark is deliberately confusing and drivers are unable to read the small print when seated in a vehicle. Signs are at a height that cannot be read from a passing vehicle and a sign is partially covered by a fixed roller shutter door.

5) The particulars of claim on the claim form xxxxxx state -
The claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the defendant as the driver/keeper of the vehicle. The driver of the vehicle has not been identified as there is no evidence of who was driving. It  cannot be assumed the keeper/driver are one and the same at the time of the alleged contravention.

6)  With reference to ES Parking final demand dated 25/10/18 -

Subheading - Additional PCN Details
Site/Location - Multistorey carpark ,Union Street,  Accrington
Reason for Issue - Vehicle returned within a no return period of 90 minutes.
Period of Parking -
17/08/2018  11:28:21 AM
17/08/2018   11:50:16 AM
Duration of stay -  00:00:21 (DD:HH:MM)
This does not give evidence of a return.

7)  ES Parkings conduct of proceedings to date is an abuse of court process with a view to use the court process as a means to intimidate members of the public and consider their conduct of this matter to be unbefitting. The actions of the IAS are unfair as it is compromised by a conduct of interests  with the IPC.

All the conflicting evidence does not make it clear why any PCN has been issued.  Due to the irregularities of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim was brought.

In summary,  it is the defendant's position that the claim is without merit and has no real prospect of sucess due to the inaccuracies and the court is invited to strike out the claim of its  own initiative , using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.
The defendant further notes the claimants failure to engage in pre action correspondence in accordance  with pre action protocol with the express aim of avoiding contested litigation thus demonstrating a disregard for the dignity of the court.

I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.
NAME
SIGNED
DATE 

Any comments welcome as to what can / cannot be used in WS etc etc etc.

Many thanks.

go-on-then

On the reverse of the PCN is a subheading  '  Photographic Evidence'  and states 
Additional images of the incident can be viewed online at XXXXX.
I will look at these again and post comments etc.

I was told by a solicitor, when he was shown the PCN,  that all the photographic evidence should be displayed on that original PCN  as a judge would just look at it and say something along the lines of ' well where is all the evidence, not my job to be looking at other papers for it  or going online ' . I would now think maybe that's not quite what would happen ??? 

Coupon-mad

Looks good, albeit this one is NOT the current template defence we wanted you to use.

You can use any of the same stuff others have used in WS in any Gladstones threads.  To see recent examples of what people have put together for their bundles, see the threads by @keypulse and @Chefdave

Also read the telephone hearings thread from start to finish, if you are at WS stage.  There is no point printing out your WS & evidence during the lockdown.  Do everything by email (as shown in the TELEPHONE HEARINGS thread, and you need to head off the possibility of a remote hearing and see if your Judge can be persuaded by a DRAFT ORDER, to just strike the claim out.