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BrassicWoman

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

I think the media stirs people into mad frenzies. The amount of violence I witness is minimal. Kids are louder but not more violent afaik.

[Deleted User]

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

More violent than when?  The razor gangs, mods and rockers clashes and football hooliganism of the 60s?  A period in modern history when corporal punishment in school and the home was the norm.  

SingleSue

swingaloo said:

I was smacked as a child but it didn't make me afraid of my parents. It made me afraid of the repercussions of behaving badly. 
All my siblings were smacked and not one of us held any kind of grudge or resentfulness towards our parents. If we got in trouble at school then we got in trouble again at home when our parents found out about it. 
It certainly didn't leave scars or cause trauma to any of us.
Nor did it make me abusive towards my own children. There was only one instance of one of my sons getting a smack on the bottom and its turned into a family joke now he is older, he never misses a chance to remind me of it.
There is a big difference between physical abuse and a smack on the leg.  Now we have a society many of whom have no respect for anyone or anything because they have never had any form of discipline. Parents are held to ransom by their own children in many cases, schools cannot discipline any more and if they try they have some irate parent who cant believe their little angel could possibly misbehave posing on the front of the local paper with folded arms pulling the appropriate face. The police have no options, householders, shopkeepers and car owners are at risk if they try to defend their own property. People going about their daily jobs have to take abuse. 
Since this thread started Ive had chats with my grandson and my nephew to get their opinions. My grandson (14) said that at school a lot of the kids refuse to do things in lessons, never do homework, walk out of detentions, go in late and even leave early. When I asked why they did that he replied 'Because they can, they know no-one can do anything'. My nephew (19) said it was pretty much the same when he was at school and that pupils would just laugh at teachers when they tried to enforce any kind of order. In his words, 'No-one did anything they didnt want to do'. 
If smacking a child causes the child to grow up to believe that aggression is the answer as some posters have implied, why is it that since any kind of physical discipline has been banned children have become more aggressive? Shouldn't it be the other way round.
Sitting a child on the 'naughty step' is not working and we are now too far gone to rectify the problems caused by years of letting little Johnny have his own way.

Not smacking doesn't mean a child getting their own way. Mine certainly didn't, they knew that when I said no that I actually meant it regardless of how much they created and in fact, the more they created, not only would they not get what they wanted but they would also lose other privileges too.

I also always followed through, none of this "No you can't have it" and then to give in a few minutes later for a quiet life or because I wanted to carry on a conversation with someone else or I was busy etc. If I gave an instruction, I expected it to be followed. As I have said, I am seen as a very strict parent even by those who smack their children....their children get away with a lot more than mine ever did,

Re the naughty step, I didn't do that, waste of time to be honest especially with one of mine. He has severe short term memory problems and he would have absolutely no clue why he was on the step in the first place and it just ended up confusing him more. He was also the one who was learning through the behaviour of others in being reactionary to a situation...now at 23, he is described as a gentle giant, the one you would want in your corner to support you when you are going through a tough time and an absolute gentleman, however he is also the one who was permanently excluded from school at age 8 for violence and aggression and looked to be on the wrong track until I changed everything around regarding parenting and bringing in the no smack, no violence, no aggression but more talk, more listening rules once my marriage broke down and I had sole charge of the boys (ex wasn't interested in seeing them bar a couple of hours a year)

pickledonionspaceraider

BrassicWoman said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

I think the media stirs people into mad frenzies. The amount of violence I witness is minimal. Kids are louder but not more violent afaik.

Interesting POV.  I guess it depends where you live.  In my city there have been 40+ knife robberies within 1 mile radius of the city centre...Since the 1st January.  These are people on their way to work, teenagers gone in town to spend their Christmas money - just normal folk going about their business

pickledonionspaceraider

Lover_of_Lycra said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

More violent than when?  The razor gangs, mods and rockers clashes and football hooliganism of the 60s?  A period in modern history when corporal punishment in school and the home was the norm.  

Hmm I get where you are coming from, but there is never a time when society has been perfect - I could not agree more.  Some people just want to see the world burn

 I think that is the second time you have mentioned razor gangs

The comparisons you are making are are localised organised violence against like-minded people who also go out to hurt someone. Most of the victims are from rival gangs also looking for trouble.  These are not compatible to modern society IMO - and all of your examples are 50+ years old or even pre-war

Now, everyday day folk cannot safely go about their business.. I am not talking about idiots looking for violence like your examples, I am talking about a person walking to work etc

 Regular looking folk that walk past you in the street, you do not know who is carrying a weapon.  Knives in general day to day use are HUGE and combined with the rising mental health issue this is bad news.   I  have literally lost count of the amount of young people, mainly young lads, that have lost their lives in my city due to knives. It is terrifying.

Some are really pathetic reasons too, someone cut in front of them at a traffic light or accidentally someone bumped into someone  in a taxi que,  Our city centre is a ghost town nowadays.  Back in the 80s and 90s it was buzzing in the city at night.  It is not a recent thing, the city centre has been declining over the last 10 years or so.  

onwards&upwards

pickledonionspaceraider said:

BrassicWoman said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

I think the media stirs people into mad frenzies. The amount of violence I witness is minimal. Kids are louder but not more violent afaik.

Interesting POV.  I guess it depends where you live.  In my city there have been 40+ knife robberies within 1 mile radius of the city centre...Since the 1st January.  These are people on their way to work, teenagers gone in town to spend their Christmas money - just normal folk going about their business

Do do you know the crime stats for previous years?  Not just for knife crime for all violent crime?  

pickledonionspaceraider

onwards&upwards said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

BrassicWoman said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

I think the media stirs people into mad frenzies. The amount of violence I witness is minimal. Kids are louder but not more violent afaik.

Interesting POV.  I guess it depends where you live.  In my city there have been 40+ knife robberies within 1 mile radius of the city centre...Since the 1st January.  These are people on their way to work, teenagers gone in town to spend their Christmas money - just normal folk going about their business

Do do you know the crime stats for previous years?  Not just for knife crime for all violent crime?  

That is the standard line on this forum, 'give us your statistics'.
Yes. I know what the statistics 'say' about my City.  The stats are not facts
They are askew, according to what the police want people to think.
I can only speak for my area, but a recent audit by the HMICFRS - the police were proven to NOT be recording 1/3 of crime.  This includes violent crime, rapes etc.

This really shocked me until I had first hand experience of the pressure that some Police officers will put on a victim to NOT make a complaint. If I had not seen it myself, I would not believe it, in all honesty.

I know there are some great officers, but there are some that spend MORE time putting pressure on victims to NOT make a statement, than they do, actually doing their job

Gavin83

pickledonionspaceraider said:

BrassicWoman said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

I think the media stirs people into mad frenzies. The amount of violence I witness is minimal. Kids are louder but not more violent afaik.

Interesting POV.  I guess it depends where you live.  In my city there have been 40+ knife robberies within 1 mile radius of the city centre...Since the 1st January.  These are people on their way to work, teenagers gone in town to spend their Christmas money - just normal folk going about their business

You might wanna consider moving, you clearly live in a rough neighbourhood. I’ve lived in or around London my whole life and I’ve never witnessed anything close to the crime levels you mention and would happily walk the streets at night. 

onwards&upwards

pickledonionspaceraider said:

onwards&upwards said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

BrassicWoman said:

pickledonionspaceraider said:

Food for thought.  

We have removed smacking, however society has got more violent and unsettled.

Interesting. 

I think the media stirs people into mad frenzies. The amount of violence I witness is minimal. Kids are louder but not more violent afaik.

Interesting POV.  I guess it depends where you live.  In my city there have been 40+ knife robberies within 1 mile radius of the city centre...Since the 1st January.  These are people on their way to work, teenagers gone in town to spend their Christmas money - just normal folk going about their business

Do do you know the crime stats for previous years?  Not just for knife crime for all violent crime?  

That is the standard line on this forum, 'give us your statistics'.
Yes. I know what the statistics 'say' about my City.  The stats are not facts
They are askew, according to what the police want people to think.
I can only speak for my area, but a recent audit by the HMICFRS - the police were proven to NOT be recording 1/3 of crime.  This includes violent crime, rapes etc.

This really shocked me until I had first hand experience of the pressure that some Police officers will put on a victim to NOT make a complaint. If I had not seen it myself, I would not believe it, in all honesty.

I know there are some great officers, but there are some that spend MORE time putting pressure on victims to NOT make a statement, than they do, actually doing their job

Ah ok, the facts don’t back you up therefore the facts must be wrong. 🤣🤣

swingaloo

Where exactly are you expecting people to get these 'facts' from? People can only have opinions based on what they see and hear themselves. I know of some people who have not even bothered to report a crime to the police, this includes a local shopkeeper who has been the target of gangs of youths taking his stock on 11 occasions in 3 months. The first 3 times he called the police and on the third occasion they only turned up the day after and even though he has cctv footage nothing is done so he no longer bothers to report it. He has said that he will soon have no option but to close his shop completely or start to close in the evenings. 
I had my purse snatched and reported it to the police but if it happened again I probably wouldn't bother to report as it achieved nothing last time.

And no, I don't want to consider moving, why should I have to consider moving away from family and my work because of yob culture.  Ive been in this town for 30+ years and its only in the last few years its got so bad.