No stopping Parking Charge at Airport

Ralph-y

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6130456/telephone-hearings-re-parking-firm-claims-can-we-all-discuss-strategy-and-outcomes-here/p1

Ralph

Coupon-mad

You also need to read the stuff under the heading IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN in the NEWBIES thread, 2nd post.  I even marked that in RED so people would see it...everything you need to know, plus WS & evidence and costs assessment examples, is there.  It amazes me that people come back after filing a defence and don't know what to do next, or what to expect, when all the while, the sticky thread is there for you!


We need you now though:

Please now make a real difference - A TASK FOR SEPTEMBER.

The Government is (this month only) consulting about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework to rein in the rogue parking firms.  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation, and get everyone you know to do the same.

You will need to register to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker, but otherwise it is easy to navigate, and comment upon each section/subsection individually. You can save comments to edit later and or submit comments once you are happy with them.

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

At the very least, we say the parking charge level should be £50/£25 or higher level £70/£35, as per Council PCNs in E&W.  

And we say the added fake 'debt recovery' costs are just double counting the cost of letters, and MUST GO because that is unfair and illegal.

Please be heard.  You can bet the hundreds of PPCs will be commenting.

No apologies for repeating this vital 'call for action' to consumers, on every thread this month!

Rjhsteel

Fruitcake said:

Rjhsteel said:

Received my court date a few days ago via the smalls claims track.
Due to the ongoing Covid situation, it will be via call.
It mentions each party must deliver all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing to the court and the other party... What might that include? 

It might include your shopping list and your vital statistics, but normally for a court case it would include your Witness Statement (including rebuttal of theirs), exhibits, and "all documents on which that party intends to rely on at the hearing ... ". You can't ambush the court or claimant on the day by producing stuff they haven't seen before.
Surely this is all explained in the guide to court from the NEWBIES.

If/when you have the scammer's WS and exhibits, post them here for the regulars to check over and comment on if there is time to do so before you have to submit your. Only redact YOUR personal data.

So witness statement only really, I don’t have any other documents as evidence tbh. Once I have it written out I will post it on here.

Coupon-mad

 I don’t have any other documents as evidence tbh.

But the NEWBIES thread tells everyone what your exhibits should include.  Please, read the guidance on this stage.

Rjhsteel

Coupon-mad said:

 I don’t have any other documents as evidence tbh.

But the NEWBIES thread tells everyone what your exhibits should include.  Please, read the guidance on this stage.

"At witness statement stage (usually NOT LATER THAN 14 DAYS BEFORE YOUR HEARING!) don't forget to file the evidence you will rely upon, which should include:

(a) a copy of the Beavis case sign as a comparison to show how awful the small print sign was in yours case (see Google images - it's yellow and black)
(b) photos proving the scarce/illegible small print signs & a view showing the lack of entrance signs, etc.
(c) maybe a video of how it looks from a car? Get a passenger to hold a camera or phone and record the lack of signs in similar light conditions.
(d) if you are defending as keeper, not driver, include a copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA - there is a link in post #1 above. Plus a copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability'.
(e) a copy of your lease or tenancy agreement if this is an 'own space' or 'block of flats' dispute where YOU have primacy of contract.
(f) case transcripts that support your argument (get them from the Parking Prankster's case law page), e.g. if arguing prohibitive 'forbidding parking' signs which offer no contract a driver can accept, you need PCM v Bull; if arguing that this is a residential space where the tenant/leaseholder has already been granted the right to park or unload, you need Jopson v Home Guard (appeal) and PACE v Mr N, etc.
(g) the IPC or BPA Code of practice, where it supports your case (e.g. grace periods) but be sure to use the RIGHT version for the date of parking.
(h) Pay & Display ticket, if the driver paid. DON'T argue 'no loss'!
(i) the Approved Judgment from Southampton, plus paras 98, 193 and 198 from Parking Eye v Beavis copied & pasted onto a single sheet.
WITNESS STATEMENT - EASY STAGE - YOUR 'STORY' & EVIDENCE"

Most of this doesn't relate to my case.
Signage was fine.
It was a case of I needed to pick her up because she didn't feel safe after a pervert showed her explicit material on her train.

Coupon-mad

Signage has never been 'fine' IN ANY CASE WE HAVE EVER SEEN and I've been here for about twelve years...if you say the signage was 'fine' in court then you are about to throw all this away.

Did you actually look at a Google Image of the Beavis case (yellow and black) simple sign and put it next to 'your sign'?

Did you read other no stopping Airport cases?  No stopping signs are shocking and there are decent witness statements people have done recently that are shining examples of how to address a no-stopping scam charge by talking about Ransomes/trespass/the fact the roads are public highway.    Your WS needs to match those good recent ones - there was one that was great only the other week, that covered all of this (no idea of username but start reading Airport court claim threads and see what others have done for theirs.

Have you done the two Government consultations yet, calling for lower parking charges and no scams at Airports?

KeithP

Rjhsteel said:

Most of this doesn't relate to my case.
Signage was fine.

I would suggest that a), b) and c) definitely apply in your case, and possibly d) - you decide that one.

f) case transcripts. - what about one that states that stopping is not parking?

i) - why doesn't that apply?

So most of that list does apply to your case.

Perhaps you also need extracts from their KADOE agreement with the DVLA which allows them to get keeper details for parking events. Again, stopping is not parking.

Similarly with POFA - that is concerned with parking, not stopping.

Coupon-mad

All if this was done by someone only last week or the week before - a really well worded one about Ransomes, the RTA, etc.

Rjhsteel

Coupon-mad said:

Signage has never been 'fine' IN ANY CASE WE HAVE EVER SEEN and I've been here for about twelve years...if you say the signage was 'fine' in court then you are about to throw all this away.

Did you actually look at a Google Image of the Beavis case (yellow and black) simple sign and put it next to 'your sign'?

Did you read other no stopping Airport cases?  No stopping signs are shocking and there are decent witness statements people have done recently that are shining examples of how to address a no-stopping scam charge by talking about Ransomes/trespass/the fact the roads are public highway.    Your WS needs to match those good recent ones - there was one that was great only the other week, that covered all of this (no idea of username but start reading Airport court claim threads and see what others have done for theirs.

Have you done the two Government consultations yet, calling for lower parking charges and no scams at Airports?

I can't believe that signage in EVERY case is bad. That just doesn't make sense to me. 
This case has never been about the signage.
 So you are saying i say the signage was bad, no matter if i think it was good? Just to win the case?
This case was never about the signs, it was about the fact that i got a no stopping ticket in,what we believe was a emergency situation. 

Redx

Well it does to us , Through years of experience and popla results and court cases

You are letting the circumstances cloud your mind , open it and see