Another win for MSE

Chefdave · 6 January 2020 at 8:19PM

Edit - if you're redirected here to look at the 'bundle' (main and supplementary WS and exhibits) please go to page 13 and scroll towards the bottom to see the 3 files, updated to include the April 2020 Statement of truth

Hi there, I had a claim form drop through my letterbox just before Xmas over a private parking ticket issued in February which I ignored as I wrongly assumed they wouldn't take it any further.

My girlfriend and I stayed at a B&B in Southampton and parked in a car park which must've been used by several guesthouses. We had permission to park in the car park but we weren't in the correct spot, the B&B asked us to move the car the following day which we did immediately but nonetheless a couple of weeks later I received a fine in the post.

We weren't blocking or obstructing anyone, we'd parked at the side out of the way. The car park was frankly a bit of a junkyard too, when we came to collect it I remember seeing a couple of broken cars at the back with someone working on them. Having had a look on Google streetview I can see a sign saying 'private car park' and also another saying not to park there without authorisation (which we had) It wasn't very clear that I'd caused a problem parking where I had.

I've been online and acknowledged it, also today I've had another letter from BW legal drop through the letterbox seeking a 'suitable repayment plan' to avoid the court

Here are the details:

The Issue date was 20th December 2019

Claimant - Countrywide Parking. BW Legal are also involved

PoC:

"The Claimant's Claim is for the sum of £172 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a PCN for a parking contravention which occurred on 23/02/19 in the private car park/land located at the Circle Guest House Southampton SO15 2BN in relation to a vehicle xxxxxx. The defendant was allowed 28 days from the PCN Date to pay but failed to do so"

The're claiming £172, with a court fee of £25 and legal representatives costs of £50. Total = £247

Is it too late to ask for a SAR?

Should I just prepare a defence as best I can send it off and hope for the best? I'm still reading up on this stuff and there's a lot to go through.

Coupon-mad · 6 January 2020 at 8:23PM

Is it too late to ask for a SAR?

Not too late. It will help you know more, at WS & evidence stage, pre-hearing.

Should I just prepare a defence as best I can send it off and hope for the best?

Acknowledge the claim then show us your draft defence, there is no 'hoping for the best' and defence is not your only job. The Defendant has to do a WS & evidence and appear at your local county court at a hearing - it is exhilarating, a great experience, where you win!

I'm still reading up on this stuff and there's a lot to go through.

Only 17 example defences in the NEWBIES thread and some of them are not like your case.

For a recent defence example, read the one I wrote for basher52 on his thread and adapt that one to suit.

KeithP · 6 January 2020 at 8:31PM

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 22nd January 2020 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

Sign it and date it.
Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
Send that pdf as an email attachment to [email protected]
Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

Chefdave · 6 January 2020 at 9:01PM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Not too late. It will help you know more, at WS & evidence stage, pre-hearing.

Acknowledge the claim then show us your draft defence, there is no 'hoping for the best' and defence is not your only job. The Defendant has to do a WS & evidence and appear at your local county court at a hearing - it is exhilarating, a great experience, where you win!

Only 17 example defences in the NEWBIES thread and some of them are not like your case.

For a recent defence example, read the one I wrote for basher52 on his thread and adapt that one to suit.

Thank you for replying. I have to attend court over this?? I thought a judge would look at the evidence and then decide, I didn't realise I'd have to give witness statements etc

Thanks I'll have a look at basher52's thread - I've just realised how quick this forum is. It's incredibly busy

Chefdave · 6 January 2020 at 9:02PM

KeithP wrote: »

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 22nd January 2020 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:
Print your Defence.
Sign it and date it.

Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.

Send that pdf as an email attachment to [email protected]

Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.

No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.

Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.

Thanks KeithP I'll start working on it right away

Fruitcake · 6 January 2020 at 9:08PM

Chefdave wrote: »

Thank you for replying. I have to attend court over this?? I thought a judge would look at the evidence and then decide, I didn't realise I'd have to give witness statements etc

Thanks I'll have a look at basher52's thread - I've just realised how quick this forum is. It's incredibly busy

You don't have to attend if you don't want to, but you stand a much greater chance of losing if you don't attend and you may get hit with the full whack of fake charges the scammers have added on as well that other judges have said is an abuse of process when they have thrown the cases out.

A well defended claim will is more likely to result in a win and get you £95 in your back pocket if you get it right.

Redx · 6 January 2020 at 9:21PM

A long way to go and several hurdles to jump by both sides before getting into an actual court room

The bargepole timeline post tells you what happens and when , be it a parking ticket or an unpaid plumber

Coupon-mad · 6 January 2020 at 10:00PM

You wanna win? Go to court, and see the whites of their eyes. It's well worth it. here is what a person who won today, said:

This was honestly one of the most delightful things I have ever witnessed, and Judge Whitford was simply incredible. I have a strong suspicion that he knows exactly what these parking companies are, and that he'd encountered this particular representative before, too.

beamerguy · 6 January 2020 at 10:34PM

The're claiming £172,

THEY LIE, and they will lie to the court as well.

Trouble BWLegal has, is they are being spanked by the courts for this wild dream as they add a fake £60 to the claim

They have failed to explain their authority to add fake amounts

So. will you be the next one to get BWLegal spanked ????

Abuse of Process ... District Judge tells BWLegal

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6014081

Chefdave · 12 January 2020 at 10:49PM

Hi guys, thanks for all your help so far. I'm stressing a little over this and tried to read as much as I can so I don't ask questions you've all answered a million times before. But I do need some help with my defence as I'm lacking confidence in my abilities right now also I don't want to submit something I don't understand.

I've made some progress by filing a SAR and contacting the hotel again today for proof that I bought a permit.

In terms of the particulars of own case how much do I need to include in my defence? In the POC they've not really specified why I'm being charged, merely that a 'contravention' took place.

If I adapt one of bargepole's concise defences from the newbies thread post #2 (I like the one about poorly marked lines), copy and paste post #14 by Coupon-mad from beamerguy's Abuse of Process thread and add the following paragraph about landowner authority somewhere in the mix:

The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

Would this be sufficient for a defence?

I don't think I'm capable of editing the defence Coupon-mad wrote for basher52 as if I start picking it apart I might not be able to put it back together again.

I feel like the Abuse of Process stuff could be my trump card as they've opted to try and claim this additional £60 and the tide could be turning against them on this from what I understand

Redx · 12 January 2020 at 11:24PM

I dont know about "sufficient" , but its a start, so do so and post it below

when its ready to send , you will be told, but until you post your draft nobody will assit you in honing it, dont worry about how good it is , do your best and post it, the critique will come then, same as on every other defence on here

the fake £60 is not a defence , dont get that idea , its fake charges , so if they concede the charges then the judge hears a defence to the main charge , the pcn being issued , its not often that a judge chucks out the case, but has happened

so abuse of process is not a trump card, because it provides no defence to the main issues which resulted in the pcn being issued

post your proposed draft below

Another win for MSE

MSE NEWSFLASH 27/1

Another win for MSE

Replies

Quick links