Received a letter from County Court Business Centre

chotamaz

Hello everyone and thank you all for your help on this forum.

It is a great thing I found this forum. I apologies in advance if I was not supposed to open new thread, but after reading through Posts for Newbies and many other Posts and threads by other user the advice I found was if you received CCBC Northampton letter to open new Thread and here I am.
My PCN was for overstaying in a KFC car park for about 13 or 15 min, if I remember correctly, as I binned the PCN letters from before. Allowed time was 30 min according to the letter and I was in the car park for about 43 or 45 min. I went through the drive through as at that time of the night the restaurant was closed. only drive through working. I cant say how much exactly but it took ages to get my meal because of the incompetent stuff and the many delivery bikes who were cutting the queue. I said nothing as it was mildly raining and they were on foot and I was inside my car. After finally getting my meal I parked in one of the parking spots and consumed it outside my car, as I avoid eating inside my car.
Few weeks latter I received the PCN, which came as a surprise. First thing I did was to call the restaurant. That was no help. The manager just told me he cant do anything and to call the company who manages the car park.
After that I did an online challenge on the website of the company who manages the car park and explained them the situation. My challenge was refused. After talking to some colleagues about the situation I was advised just to ignore it and that it will go away. Bad advice!
So now Civil Enforcement Limited Has made a claim for £255 with CCBC Northampton and I do not know what to do. Just pay these bloodsuckers and try to forget it or try to fight it, if possible at all. Paying them feels like being robbed. It doesnt feel fair at all but I have no Idea how could I fight this.

Thank you all for your help.

Redx

you most definitely SHOULD start this new thread, no question

those collegues are clearly morons , no idea about legalities, bar room advice, as you said , BAD advice

CEL have inflated their claim with unlawful extra charges , it would be foolish to pay

email a SAR to CEL to their DPO on their privacy page , attach a copy of the claim form and demand all your data, as the newbies thread post #2 explains

you will get your ideas as you read other defences and get clarity over the next few weeks

post the ISSUE DATE from the top right of the claim form below

chotamaz

Hello Redx and thank you for your quick reply.

The issue date is 20 Dec 2019. the problem is I dont have any other letters for the PCN. Don't know which company was. I
the claim form I received today doesn't give any details. Just PCN. number and date.
On the first page one of the paragraphs says "I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form."

BrownTrout

Your claim form is from Civil Enforcement Ltd.........
100%

Fruitcake

Read the guide to court written by bargepole you will find in post 2 of the NEWBIES.

This will tell you to send the AoS which will give you four weeks instead of two. Do not put anything in the defence box, absolutely nothing, not even a full stop.

Send an SAR as per the NEWBIES to the parking scammers to flush out the PCN and any other personal data they hold on you. Include a copy of the V5 as proof of ID.

Redx

chotamaz wrote: »

he problem is I dont have any other letters for the PCN. Don't know which company was.


the claim form I received today doesn't give any details. Just PCN. number and date.

you said yourself that the company was CEL , hence why I said email the DPO at CEL with a SAR to get copies of all paperwork

the claim form would have said CEL as claimant , as Browntrout clearly pointed out

to the OP "wake up at the back !!" lol

KeithP

I'm not sure that filing an Acknowledgment of Service yet is the right thing to do.

My understanding is that technically an AoS is acknowledging service of the Particulars of Claim and in this case the Claimant has said "I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form."

Unfortunately MCOL doesn't appear to be set up to deal satisfactorily with this scenario.

If the Defendant delays filing an AoS until after having received the 'separate detailed particulars', then it is likely that the claimant will be able to seek a Default Judgment before the defendant has the opportunity to legitimately file an AoS.

Conversely, if the defendant files an AoS before receiving the 'separate detailed particulars', then there is a risk that the 'separate detailed particulars' never arrive but the defendant has already acknowledged receipt of them.

On balance, I would suggest not filing an AoS until very close to fourteen days after the date of service of the claim in the hope that the more detailed particulars appear by then.

So...

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th December, you have until Wednesday 8th January to file an Acknowledgment of Service. If possible, delay filing an AoS until close to Wednesday 8th January, but do not miss that date. To file an AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 22nd January 2020 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

chotamaz

thanks again all for your replays.

this is all new to me and I cant decide what is the best thing to do. i just went to CEL's website and found more details about the PCN. it says that I overstayed by 16 min.

Date of Violation:
Duration of Stay:
0:46:00

I cant provide a V5 form as this was a company car. can I just scan the claim form from the CCBC and use that as a proof of identity for the SAR?

How will Particulars of Claim help me and why is it important?

Do I have any chance winning this, as technically I overstayed. what would my defence exactly be in this case? I have no means of proving in a court that there were other people on foot in the drive through and cutting the queue, and also that the stuff was so incompetent that it took them 3 attempts to get my ice tea right.

if I am about to loose this in a court is there a chance the fines goes up?
thank you so much

KeithP

chotamaz wrote: »

Can I just scan the claim form from the CCBC and use that as a proof of identity for the SAR?

That's fine.

Redx

chotamaz wrote: »

thanks again all for your replays.

this is all new to me and I cant decide what is the best thing to do. i just went to CEL's website and found more details about the PCN. it says that I overstayed by 16 min.

Date of Violation:
13/03/2019
Site:
CAR PARK AT 150-164 EVELYN STREET, LONDON, SE8 5DB
From:
13-03-2019 00:33
To:
13-03-2019 01:19
Duration of Stay:
0:46:00

I cant provide a V5 form as this was a company car. can I just scan the claim form from the CCBC and use that as a proof of identity for the SAR?

How will Particulars of Claim help me and why is it important?

Do I have any chance winning this, as technically I overstayed. what would my defence exactly be in this case? I have no means of proving in a court that there were other people on foot in the drive through and cutting the queue, and also that the stuff was so incompetent that it took them 3 attempts to get my ice tea right.

if I am about to loose this in a court is there a chance the fines goes up?
thank you so much

it is saying that the vehicle overstayed by 16 minutes, they do not monitor people, they monitor the number plate of the vehicle

there was and is no fine, never was , there is an INVOICE for an alleged overstay by this vehicle on the site that they monitor

the total claimed is on the claim form, it may go down once the added charges are objected to, it wont go up if that is what you are asking , a typical loss in court is about £200

the particulars of claim set out why they think the money is owed, to the judge, if they are vague or ill advised then you are in a better position

your defence contains all the legal reasons why you as defendant are not liable, you will ascertain these as you draft your defence over the next few weeks, by reading other threads

frustration of contract
no landowner authority
poor signage
the CRA 2015
ABUSE OF PROCESS

all are defence points, probably more too


yes scan the claim form and use that as proof of I D for the SAR , I told you that in post #2 , the first reply

chotamaz

Hello all and happy new year.

I received the Particulars of claim couple of days ago:

1. At all material times, the Claimant was authorised to manage the car park ("the Site") situated at the address detailed on the attached Schedule of Information ("Schedule"). The Site is private property.

2. The Claimant uses Automatic Number Plate Recognition ("ANPR") cameras at the entrance and exit of the Site, which identify the time of arrival and departure of vehicles entering and exiting the Site.

3. There are many clear and visible signs at the entrance to and around the Site, notifying drivers of the terms and conditions of use. Drivers are permitted to park in the Site in accordance with the terms displayed on the signage. The signs and clear wording thereon constitute an offer by the Claimant to enter into a contract with drivers. The relevant terms of the contract are summarised in the Schedule.

4. When the vehicle parked at the Site( on the date and time detailed in the Schedule) the driver of the vehicle accepted, by their conduct the terms and conditions of parking ( Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council [2000] 4 All ER 169).

5. On the date in question the vehicle was parked in breach of the terms and conditions of the contract. The Defendant was therefore issued a Parking Charge Notice ("PCN") requiring payment of the parking charge arising by virtue of the said breach.

6. Payment of the sum required pursuant to the PCN was due from the Defendant within 28 days of the date of the PCN. The Defendant has failed to pay the PCN sum or any part of that by the due date or at all.

7. It is both lawful and commercially justifiable for the Claimant as member of the Approved Operator Scheme regulated by the British Parking Association ("BPA") to implement a disincentive parking charge to enable the efficient management and control of private car parks for the benefit of its users ( Supreme Court decision in ParkingEe v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67). The Claimant`s charge is neither extravagant nor unconscionable and falls within the BPA`s Code of Practice guidelines.

8. The Claimant (directly and through its appointed debt recovery agents) escalated the matter as a result of the Defendant`s non-payment of the PCN, which further increased the debts owed and for which sums the Defendant is liable in accordance with the stated terms of parking.

9. The Claimant claims the amount owed, plus court fees and legal costs, and interest pursuant to section 69of the County Courts Act 1984 on the amount found to be due to the Claimant at such rate, and for such period, as the court thinks fit.

10. The Claimant has compiled with the practice direction on pre-action conduct and pre-action protocol for debt claims.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS:

1)The sum of £[see Schedule]; and
2) Statuory interest as set out at paragraph 9 above: and
3) Costs
.

This is for 16 min overstay in KFC car park. I was driving a company car at the time. The money they claim of me is £255. What are your expert thoughts of this particulates of claim?
I have also contacted KFC customer services through their web site. They said they will contact the firm managing the car park and get back to me. I am still waiting.

What would my main defence point be in this situation? The main reason for the longer stay at the car park, as I mentioned above, was the slow service and people on foot cutting the queue.

Thank you all.