UKPC - Point of appeal - Invalid Parking Charge Reference

Redx

send 2 emails then , seeing as she suggested an alternative email address

one is the SAR

the other is the rest of the info as a complaint , from the keeper , even the royal WE can be used (WE have visited the site and noticed...  etc)

think about it

Coupon-mad

I didn't say to say 'in the SAR request' about the signs, although i appreciate it was a little unclear:

Use the email:
appealmoreinfo@ukparkingcontrol.com
...and do not imply who was driving.  Tell them their DPO email is bouncing and you want a SAR, and attach your V5C to confirm your data and address.  Tell them as well that no NTK was served due to an old address and so you are appealing as soon as you were made aware of the PCN, as the signs at the site are abysmal, and you want a POPLA code.

Two things.  Not one:
(a) 'I want a SAR and your email is bouncing'
(b)  No NTK was served due to an old address and so you are appealing as soon as you were made aware of the PCN, as the signs at the site are abysmal, and you want a POPLA code.

Send separate emails if easier.

Crazyd0glady

Email received today:

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email that was recently received by our Appeals team.  Please note that we are unable to accept an appeal at this late stage.  As per the Parking Charge notice that was placed on the vehicle windscreen we allow 28 days for an appeal from the issue date.  A Notice to keeper was sent to you on 16/12/2019 followed by a Final letter on 14/01/2020.  The parking charge then escalated to Debt recovery on 29/01/2020.

I have noted that you are requesting a Subject Access Request.  This request has been forwarded to the relevant department to process.  Please allow 28 days for a response.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.  I can appreciate that this is not the outcome you may have wanted but hope it explains  the reason behind our decision.

Kind regards

Complaints Department

Crazyd0glady

Am thinking response should be on the lines of:
No notice to keeper was received as stated in the SAR request due to a previous address. First correspondence received to correct address was on the 24th February 2020 in the form of a demand for payment for £160. The letter also states that if the information is not correct then to get in touch which I have done and am now being told I cannot appeal. I will be complaining to the BPA with regards to this since no assumptions can be made about the driver and the Notice to keeper was not sent to the correct address.

Anything to add?

Redx

not quite true

it was not sent to the present address because the keeper failed to notify the DVLA of the change of address, which will be the details they received from the DVLA, the old address was used because it was the only one available via the DVLA, they cannot access it twice nor do they have to check if the keeper resides there before issuing a PCN

its probably DRPL that traced the correct address when it went to debt collection

in short, the keeper cannot complain about the address issue when it was their own fault, they are lucky the DVLA didnt fine them up to £1000 for not updating the address

had we known all this at the start , the correct action was for the driver to hand the notice to the keeper on day 25 and the keeper appeal as keeper on day 26

be careful about what you complain about , ensure its factually correct and cannot come back to bit you on the backside

Crazyd0glady

The keeper did try this but there was an issue with the appeals service via the UKPC website due to invalid parking charge reference/VRN both of which were correct. The BPA were complained to via their website at the time but the keeper never heard anything back.
Keeper is now contemplating complaining to the land owner and before there are comments saying this should have been done by now - the site that the PCN was issued at is a work place, owned by someone other than the employer and there are not enough parking spaces for this particular companies employees. There are several companies on site who have a set amount of parking spaces, some have a different PPC to manage their 6/7 spaces.
Regardless, the PCN was issued for being parked in a roadway. Just clutching at straws now as the keeper suffers from anxiety/depression and the thought of court looming is horrible.

Redx

I dont have a problem with you clutching at straws, but not imcomplete or inaccurate ones

if we had known at the start that the V5C had an old address on it we would have stated that the keeper must infrm the DVLA immediately, just think of the consequences if they had a council PCN or a speeding ticket come through the post to an old address, or the road tax renewal went to the old address and they failed to pay it because they were not aware of it running out , instant fines and higher bills in those instances

my point it , you cannot complain about UKPC issuing a pcn to an address obtained from the DVLA

so any complaints must not be about that particular issue , so chase up the BPA , chase up the landowner, or if the keeper is so distraught , pay the bill and be done with it, after ensuring that the driving licence and V5C are up to date, accept it as being a mistake of their own making

I have no problem with the keeper fighting this (even though they may lose in court), if they have the backbone for it, but clutching at straws whilst drowning is foolish, sometimes you take your lumps on the chin and move on, lesson learned

had some council pcn,s come in and gone unpaid it could have escalated to over £600 and then bailiffs (sheriffs) would be involved, with the stress that causes

so if any complaints are made, be truthful and do not blame companies for your own or the keepers own failures, because they have an obvious counter to it (not our fauilt guv, you did not update the V5C as required by the DVLA and the law)

Crazyd0glady

Thanks for your advice.

This is the first parking ticket ever received, never had a speeding ticket etc so when this happened looked for advice and found here and the advice was NOT to pay as per newbies thread so to suggest "pay the bill and be done with it" now it's escalated to £160 is slightly frustrating...
The updating of the address was an oversight, which has now been rectified.
The keeper is happy to fight this but does feel advice can be confusing on here. Also when lumped in with comments at times that can be perceived as condescending, it doesn't encourage people who have zero knowledge about this industry to fight it.

So, does the keeper try and chase up a POPLA code  with UKPC or are we past that point? RE: complaint to landowner, assume to include different PPC's, confusing signs, anything else?

Redx

People who reply will correctly assume that a keepers current name and address are on the V5C because they are required to do so by the DVLA and can be fined if they do not do so , ditto with their driving licence
https://www.gov.uk/change-name-address-v5c

It's reasonable to think that if you moved house you would change your address and other vital info with your doctor and dentist and the inland revenue and bank and council etc , nothing confusing or condescending about it , it's basic common sense

There could be speeding tickets , CCJ,s and all sorts register ed to the old address due to not updating their address with the DVLA , it happens all the time !!

The £60 added on by debt collectors  is not allowed and is a spurious charge , the keeper doesn't owe a penny unless a judge says so so it hasn't escalated at all , it's just made up numbers to intimidate vulnerable and uninformed people

Ukpc can issue a popla code any time they like , so yes the keeper complains about it even if they fail to get one , as a paper trail to show a judge , judges expect to see a paper trail and to see that every effort has been made to sort matters out , because court is the last resort

Same advice applies to landowners , keep mithering them to cancel , the more the keeper tries , in writing , the better their evidence becomes in court

They should make every complaint they can to ukpc , to the landowner , to their MP , to the BPA , to everyone , and keep doing so

What they should not do is fall into the trap caused by their own errors , so in this case not complaining about the ntk going to their old address , more a case of they were there to be found at their present address , proved by DRPL sending the debt letters to that new address

Make sure that the keeper has updated the DVLA details for their V5C and their driving licence , plus they have emailed the DPO at ukpc with a data rectification notice telling them to erase the old address and add the current address , attaching a copy of the V5C or the drpl letters etc as proof

Ps , the correct advice was given on page 1 of this thread , right at the start you were told to tell the keeper to complain to the BPA about the invalid PCN reference stopping the initial appeal from being made on day 26. There is no mention by you of the fact that the V5C was still listed at the old address which would cause a problem with a postal NTK being delivered correctly

PPS , I tell it like it is , warts and all , no sugar coating , it didn't matter to me if you like it or not , it's the truth

Coupon-mad

 the advice was NOT to pay as per newbies thread so to suggest "pay the bill and be done with it" now it's escalated to £160 is slightly frustrating.

I agree.  That is not an option we suggest.