Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

EVandPV wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-51048942

Apologies for digression, but that article referenced this one (that caught my eye):

Glasgow and Edinburgh fight to become the UK's first 'net-zero' city

What could be better than fighting to be first, rather than stalling to the end. Well done to both cities and all the residents, and best of luck to them, and any other city that joins the race in winning such a great accolade.

EVandPV

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Apologies for digression, but that article referenced this one (that caught my eye):

Glasgow and Edinburgh fight to become the UK's first 'net-zero' city

What could be better than fighting to be first, rather than stalling to the end. Well done to both cities and all the residents, and best of luck to them, and any other city that joins the race in winning such a great accolade.

My money's on Dundee which currently has the largest number of EV's and charging infrastructure in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/16/dundee-green-revolution-charging-hubs-electric-cabs-scotland

Solarchaser

Yeah I'd think Dundee also.

Surprised the ev buses are not being trialled in Fundee tbh

Martyn1981

Could be big news for BEV's, or at least EV's in the UK:

Polluting vehicles could be pulled from UK sale, say carmakers

Carmakers could pull models from the UK, the automotive industry has warned, as the British taste for polluting vehicles clashes with the difficulty of meeting post-Brexit carbon dioxide limits.

Under new EU rules, average carbon dioxide emissions of almost all cars sold in 2020 and 2021 across the single market, including the UK, must fall below 95g per kilometre, with major fines for those carmakers who miss individual targets designed to meet the goal.

That means that the heavier, fuel-guzzling SUVs favoured by Britons are offset by the smaller, less polluting cars preferred in countries such as Italy. After Brexit, when the UK plans to copy EU rules, this will no longer be the case, making a UK-only limit harder to hit.

Martyn1981

Some extracts from this weeks Carbon Commentary newsletter:

7, Electric pick-up trucks. Rivian is the main potential competitor to Tesla’s weirdly designed pick-up. It raised nearly $3bn in funding rounds last year, securing investment from Ford, Amazon and BlackRock and other funds. As Tesla did ten years ago with passenger cars, it is appealing to up-market consumers able to pay high prices for superior performance, such as the extraordinary ability to rotate the pickup through 360 degrees. This week’s Consumer Electronics Show (increasingly becoming a place to look at cars) saw Rivian announce full integration with Amazon’s Alexa, enabling the driver to use voice commands to change car settings. Commentators seemed very impressed with Rivian’s product, suggesting strong sales when sales begin at the end of this year.

8, Fuel cell economics. A sharp fall in the price of hydrogen is behind the apparently optimistic forecasts of Ballard Fuel Cells, the maker of fuel cells for commercial vehicles. At just over $2 a kilogramme or about 6 cents a kilowatt hour, hydrogen costs in 2030 are predicted to be about a third of today’s cheapest figures. (I think the figures could be much lower). A report from Deloitte, commissioned by the Canadian company, sees the total costs of larger fuel cell vehicles being roughly cost comparable with battery vehicles by the late twenties. In addition to the reductions in hydrogen costs, Deloitte says that the low material costs involved making a fuel cell will help bring comparability with batteries, which may suffer from increased costs arising from shortages of metals.

I'm not convinced by fuel cells for cars (perhaps some commercial vehicles) in countries that have the space to roll out loads of RE generation, but I can see how it might work for countries like Japan.

But, just a thought, if BEV's work well, then it would seem easier to me, to produce and consume H2 (from RE excess) at just a small number of sites* to help balance out the leccy supply/demand issues with 100% RE. Just my opinion, and of course there's always a chance that FC's will make a comeback. :think:

*By 'small number', it could still be quite a large number, I just meant small compared to rolling out a national H2 infrastructure for all or even just commercial transport.

GreatApe

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Some extracts from this weeks Carbon Commentary newsletter:

I'm not convinced by fuel cells for cars (perhaps some commercial vehicles) in countries that have the space to roll out loads of RE generation, but I can see how it might work for countries like Japan.

But, just a thought, if BEV's work well, then it would seem easier to me, to produce and consume H2 (from RE excess) at just a small number of sites* to help balance out the leccy supply/demand issues with 100% RE. Just my opinion, and of course there's always a chance that FC's will make a comeback. :think:

*By 'small number', it could still be quite a large number, I just meant small compared to rolling out a national H2 infrastructure for all or even just commercial transport.

You could have both in the form of Plug in hydrogen cars
50 mile electricity range followed by 300 mile hydrogen fuel cell
Such a fleet would be 95% electricity 5% hydrogen

Or much more likely a 50 mile plug in car with 95% of annual mileage as electricity with 5% from petrol or biofuel

Most logical sinario

ICE --> mild hybrid --> hybrid --> 25 mile plug in hybrid --> 50 mile Hybrid --> 100 mile hybrid --> 150+ mile BEV

With each step a smaller improvement than the last
A 25 mile plug in hybrid would be 90% electric no need to go further than that
Only makes sense to go to full BEVs if the ICE side costs more than 150 miles of batteries

Full range BEVs only make sense for the mass market when battery packs and power electronics fall towards $75/kWh
That's not just for batteries but batteries + battery pack + cooling + power electronics

Martyn1981

Some fun stories today:

First off Norway takes on Lexus with the 'self charging' lie that Toyota rolled out across the brands and news last year for HEV's.

Bobbie Llewellyn was particularly pee'd off with this gibberish since be it HEV's, PHEV's or BEV's, none are self charging (from regen) since the energy going back in came from the original charging (leccy or petrol) put in to the vehicle.

Maybe Toyota should give up on defending FC's and build some BEV's, then they wouldn't have to lie about their hybrids. Better still cover them with solar panels ..... self charging!

Norway Asserts Lexus “Self-Charging Hybrid” Is A Lie

Lexus has been caught in a lie by the Norwegian government. The offense was in one of its ads regarding a hybrid vehicle. In the ad, Lexus implies that the power for a hybrid battery is free of charge since the electricity that is produced by the vehicle has the consumption of gasoline as a necessary condition. Back up — what???

Mazda are arguing that long range BEV's are bad for the environment (since they don't have enough batts) but now they are trying to make sure that drivers of their BEV aren't 'spoiled' by high EV performance :rotfl:

Mazda Electric SUV Will Drive Just Like Gasoline & Diesel Powered Cars

Here is the strangest EV story you are likely to read this week. According to Autocar, Mazda’s first all electric SUV, the MX-30, is being tuned by company engineers to drive exactly the same way the company’s ICE offerings do. No galloping gobs of torque for Mazda, no sirree! When an MX-3 driver steps on the accelerator, the car will move forward the way people accustomed to gasoline and diesel engines expect. We are not making this up, as Dave Barry would say.

And now for an early April's fool story, with the Mercedes/BMW ride hailing scheme buying ........ Tesla's. Yeah, right, next they'll be claiming that German engineers have fitted a range extender into the TM3 front trunk to allow for smaller batts, and the removal of range anxiety!

Mercedes/BMW Ride-Hailing Group “Free Now” Buys 60 Tesla Automobiles

Free Now is a mobility service owned jointly by Mercedes and BMW. What we call a mobility service today used to be known as a taxi company. The difference is that a mobility service uses a smartphone app to match up taxis with riders and handle payment. (There are also now taxi apps that do that.)

It is laudable that the company wants to expand its electric car fleet but sad that neither Mercedes nor BMW has electric cars of their own they consider up to the task. So, the score in the electric taxi revolution stands at Tesla 60, Mercedes and BMW 0. There’s no clearer indication of who is leading the charge toward an electric car future than that.

EVandPV

Some battery news :-


https://www.bikebiz.com/lithium-sulfur-battery-could-see-fivefold-increase-in-e-bike-battery-life/

almillar

Most logical sinario

ICE --> mild hybrid --> hybrid --> 25 mile plug in hybrid --> 50 mile Hybrid --> 100 mile hybrid --> 150+ mile BEV

I'm already driving round in a 130 mile (summer) EV - a 40kWh BEV is what you're describing, like Leaf 2 or Zoe 40kWh. Why do we (a big average majority) need to buy all these cars in between?!

Only makes sense to go to full BEVs if the ICE side costs more than 150 miles of batteries

Nice of you to look after the profits of the companies like that, but I think that's far closer than you think.

Full range BEVs only make sense for the mass market when battery packs and power electronics fall towards $75/kWh
That's not just for batteries but batteries + battery pack + cooling + power electronics

Isn't it $100 now? Or is that just the batteries?

GreatApe

almillar wrote: »

I'm already driving round in a 130 mile (summer) EV - a 40kWh BEV is what you're describing, like Leaf 2 or Zoe 40kWh. Why do we (a big average majority) need to buy all these cars in between?!

You don't need to buy anything you can hip skip and jump to work if you like
What I'm saying is that would be the obvious way to do it given capacity and industry limits
You can build ~40 hybrids (1.5KWh) with the batteries needed for one full EV (40-100KW)

Isn't it $100 now? Or is that just the batteries?

I think that's just the battery cells
You need to build the battery pack
The cooling
The safety
The power electronics to both charge them from AC to DC
And then the power electronics to discharge them from DC to Variable AC
And of course a heavy battery system means you need to build a bigger stronger frame

All of these things will improve but it's not at all clear the price differential will drop enough anytime soon

Also realise that EVs are heavily subsidised and as EVs get more competitive the subsidises will be reduced. Just like with solar PV.

Ten years ago the talk was how on would keep on doubling every two years and within a few short years the globe would be PV powered. Didn't happen because prices only go down so far before they don't anymore. What's a 4KWp system cost today Vs 5 years ago. Afaik about the same £4-5k