BEVs deals and information

GreatApe

JKenH wrote: »

Lawyers for the family of a man who died in a fiery Tesla Model S crash are calling the vehicle a 'death trap' in a lawsuit against the company

All new cars including Teslas are pretty safe. Nothing can be 100% safe

Tesla is a success story because they have already achieved their aim which was to accelerate the transition to BEVs. That is to convince the large auto manufacturers to also invest in and development BEVs

If they are very lucky they might be able to become a 10 million vehicles a year manufacturer but this is unlikely. Especially since, I think correctly, musk has already said he isn't planning on any models cheaper than its £40-60k model 3 and the best selling cars in the UK are the ford fiesta the ford focus and the Vauxhall Corsa all below £18k

In fact interestingly with their current production rate of some 7-8k cars per week seems to be where the demand is at. The wait time is reasonable and isn't moving much. If demand exceeded supply the wait time would be going up

They will be able to increase demand somewhat with their China and EU factories because they can sell at slightly lower prices as they will have no import duties and cheaper transport costs. So a Tesla model 3 would reduce on price around £€4k


So in the near future Tesla will have to decide to either abandon the higher price points and sell their model 3s significantly cheaper. Or produce a cheaper smaller version. Or opt to stay a lower volume premium price manufacturer. I think musk will opt to reduce prices it's on his tech DNA it's about volume not price or profit with his type. Works for software but remains to be seen for hardware.

Of course self drive technology changes everything so of that arrives who knows what will happen

joefizz

GreatApe wrote: »

The only reason I can come up with is to show off and I don't like that that is the only reason

If you are a CEO, CTO, CFO (well maybe not CFO), senior director/manager of a tech company then you dont want those empty EV charging points right in front of your building to be empty.
Similarly, you dont want them filled with leafs as thats not a great image...


I suspect the model 3s will fit the bill until the Jags and Lexus's return with evs. Flash, but not too flash...

GreatApe

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Only GA would suggest taking the best BEV's on the road, that are already cheaper (TCO terms) than an ICEV, and adding an ICE!!!!

Tesla sells because it's a premium brand not because it's an EV
And the company has done well in the modern world of you tube and social media

You promote Tesla for free because you own some shares in it
Others do so because they get referral benefits
Others do so because they like the cars it's the best they've owned because they've never owned £40-60k cars before nor are they inclined to buy such cars but the hype got them

Tesla is a success BEVs as a while still are not
They may be some day but that day isn't today

almillar

Says who?
The same people who a decade ago where crying peak oil?
But instead we got 8-9 mbpd of additional shale oil output and oil at half of 2008 prices

I'm not crying peak oil. I'm simply saying that there is less and less crude oil, it's getting harder to extract, and that even in the short term, I reckon that it'll get more expensive over the next 10 years. Do you think it'll get cheaper?!!

Benefits are relative to costs

An e Golf is better than a regular Golf in some ways and a regular Golf better in other ways

At the same price I'd probably buy the e Golf at £8k more the regular petrol golf is better for my needs and probably 95% of other customers too

I notice you're sticking with list price comparisons, whilst completly ignoring PCP and PCH which I referenced earlier. Did you look at the price of an eGolf or ioniq Electric on lease?
I'll help:

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/volkswagen-e-golf-lease/

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/hyundai-ioniq-electric-premium-38kwh/

Here is a comparison of a Toyota Corolla Vs a model 3

Compare it to a 3 series or something, would you?!! It's not a Corolla competitor.

We are not going to throw away our health and wellbeing by banning fossil fuels before their time

This, I can agree with.

Ive been in a model 3 in the US and here in the UK and I have taken exception to people comparing them with BMW, Audi (as much as I hate the marques) and Alfas etc.

We can argue about the finer points of build quality etc, but how about we stick with dimensions? I would put the Model 3 in the 'compact executive sector, so compare it to the 3 series, C Class, A4 etc. I've been in one and it's a nice place to sit. It ain't a Corolla, that's for sure.

joefizz

almillar wrote: »

We can argue about the finer points of build quality etc, but how about we stick with dimensions?

No ;-)
Lets stick with build quality, its !!!!! for a 45k car ;-) It really is that simple.

GreatApe

almillar wrote: »

I'm not crying peak oil. I'm simply saying that there is less and less crude oil, it's getting harder to extract, and that even in the short term, I reckon that it'll get more expensive over the next 10 years. Do you think it'll get cheaper?!!

Well over the last 11 years the world has burnt some 400 billion barrels of oil so there is definitely less today than there was in 2008 but the price in 2008 got as high as $200 a barrel (in today's dollars) while the oil price today is closer to $60 and as you can appreciate $60 is significantly cheaper than $200

What matters isn't the quantity of the stuff remaining in the ground
There is probably enough undiscovered oil for thousands of years
What matters is supply Vs demand in the short term

And my best guess is the market will have plentiful supply so I suspect prices in real terms will remain in the $40-90 range for the next decade

Also another factor is that the world is awash in natural gas the two biggest producers USA and Russia have production costs considerably below $8/MWh. That's equal to $13.6 per barrel of oil in energy cost terms.

If oil did get expensive companies would build the infrastructure to turn $10 natural gas into oil at say $100. In fact just before the oil price crash in the 2009 period there were plans to build the world's biggest gas to oil conversion project in America. That got shelved when oil prices fell to sub $40

Or we could even run cars directly off natural gas
Cleaner and much cheaper fuel.

I notice you're sticking with list price comparisons, whilst completly ignoring PCP and PCH which I referenced earlier. Did you look at the price of an eGolf or ioniq Electric on lease?
I'll help:

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/volkswagen-e-golf-lease/
https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/hyundai-ioniq-electric-premium-38kwh/

Why not just quite the prices
I don't see how financial accounting tricks can make something unaffordable affordable it's just misinformation in my view

Compare it to a 3 series or something, would you?!! It's not a Corolla competitor

.

Well it depends who is buying and what for

We can argue about the finer points of build quality etc, but how about we stick with dimensions? I would put the Model 3 in the 'compact executive sector, so compare it to the 3 series, C Class, A4 etc. I've been in one and it's a nice place to sit. It ain't a Corolla, that's for sure.

Well $40k ain't $20k that's for sure


Anyway I like what Tesla has done more power to them as far as I am concerned
I just don't see a mass market appeal or a mass market price point

Despite what Marty preaches the best selling car in the UK is the ford fiesta which is sub £14k and the second best selling car is the ford focus sub £18k car and then the Corsa sub £15k car. A model 3 which is £40k after government bungs isn't going to take over the world it's a premium price product for a small segment of the market. It has a purpose but it's not magic it's not 2007 iPhone introduction and subsequent take over

GreatApe

Actually the best selling car is a used car
8 million used cars sold annually in the UK Vs about 2.5 million new cars
New cars mostly compete with old cars

So it's not just a choice of a brand new model 3 for £40k or a focus for £18k add to the competition a 3 year old focus for £9k or a 6 year old one for £5k and you can see why the best selling models are the used car stock

Even Marty with his Tesla shares and vested interest accepts and follows himself the fact that a used ICE is more practical and considerably more affordable than a model 3 or any other BEV for that matter

Tesla isn't particularly noteworthy apart from its in the media lots
Or rather the modern media of youtube and green websites

For low fossil useage public transport wins
For cheap motoring used ICEs win
For premium market there are more premium cars
Tesla has a purpose and will do okay
BEVs will probably do Okay in the medium term
But not until the price differential between a petrol and electric version of the same model is much lower

GreatApe

almillar wrote: »

I notice you're sticking with list price comparisons, whilst completly ignoring PCP and PCH which I referenced earlier. Did you look at the price of an eGolf or ioniq Electric on lease?
I'll help:

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/volkswagen-e-golf-lease/

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/hyundai-ioniq-electric-premium-38kwh/

£6,371 for two year ownership of the Ionic limited to just 5,000 miles a year
£6,752 for the e Golf over two years and limited to just 5,000 miles per year

I'm not sure how this makes things more affordable
Its more affordable in the same way an iPhone on contract is more affordable than paying £1,000 outright but at the end of the day you're paying the full price to Apple one way or another it doesn't help much spreading the cost over 24 months it's better to just buy a more affordable phone if you can't afford the iPhone

Likewise it's better buying a more affordable ICE if you can't afford an e golf
You can get a Hyundai i10 for £7,825 brand new and you get to keep it

ABrass

Lawyers for the family of a man who died in a fiery Tesla Model S crash are calling the vehicle a 'death trap' in a lawsuit against the company

https://apple.news/AQXQRlpW2SSyTM4duDGRNyQ

Of course they are. They're trying to make enough noise that Tesla settles the suit to avoid bad PR.

The question is like an answer to is are they right that the door handle failed in a manner that a conventional handle wouldn't and that's why their loved one died?

A more challenging question would be, does it matter? Many cars have safety features that are less than class-leading. Does a hypothetical weakness in one area negate excellence in most?

Or is this all just smoke and mirrors around Q3 numbers release?

ABrass

The corolla comparison is because in terms of total cost of ownership it is similar to a Toyota Corolla. That's the benefit of an electric power train over ICE.

It's also a closer comparison in the US where the prices are a lot closer because of tariffs.

I thought the model 3 was fine in build quality when I tried a UK one. Nothing like a cheap car feel and the sunroof is overt impressive.

But that's not the main selling point of the model 3. It doesn't have to compete with a BMW or Audi on feel because it's better as a car.