A Question for Tory Supporters

jimi_man

phillw wrote: »

And still conservatives are blaming all their mistakes on the last labour government.



Only you seem to be aware of that. Like the one soldier marching in time.



Maybe they are trying to copy the conservatives? Your criticism of labour is equally valid for conservatives. Who are bribing the money grabbing, foreigner hating group of voters. Labour are going after the rest.

Conservatives promising tax cuts is irresponsible.

Nowhere have I blamed previous Labour govts?

No, it's not just me. A large number of his own party refused to vote for an election. 11 MPs actually voted against it. Labour front benchers warned him against an election. One Labour MP said "Corbyn couldn't win second prize in a beauty contest in Monopoly." (A bit harsh).

So maybe a few more than just one soldier marching.


Mine was a genuine question. You have managed to turn it round to an attack on Labour for some reason, which it wasn't and then come back with an attack of your own? No idea why.

Labour had the opportunity to take power and my opinion was that if they played it sensible then they would be in with a chance. In a week or so we'll know if they made a good decision I guess.

phillw

jimi_man wrote: »

No, it's not just me. A large number of his own party refused to vote for an election. 11 MPs actually voted against it. Labour front benchers warned him against an election. One Labour MP said "Corbyn couldn't win second prize in a beauty contest in Monopoly." (A bit harsh).

So maybe a few more than just one soldier marching.

For a start you claimed it was everyone, and you've failed to show that any of that is to do with anything other than worrying about timing to do with brexit.

As gary glitter and rolf harris would get elected in some seats if they promised to leave the EU (and the only thing stopping people voting for jimmy saville is that he's dead), then I am not sure I'd have taken the risk of holding an election before crushing the chance of ever leaving either.

LHW99

I am not sure I'd have taken the risk of holding an election before crushing the chance of ever leaving either.

Can a new government / parliament be bound by what happened in the last, particularly if whichever party wins is in a majority?

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

And still conservatives are blaming all their mistakes on the last labour government.

Only the Facebook generation can believe that issues can be fixed and undone in a matter of days. The fall out from the GFC isn't even over yet and it started in the USA in 2006. Taking RBS as a bell weather matters have probably only just reached an even keel. Likewise PPI has only just reached a conclusion.

Arklight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Only the Facebook generation can believe that issues can be fixed and undone in a matter of days. The fall out from the GFC isn't even over yet and it started in the USA in 2006. Taking RBS as a bell weather matters have probably only just reached an even keel. Likewise PPI has only just reached a conclusion.

The "Facebook generation" are in their 30s and 40s.

Theophile

westernpromise wrote: »

I actually think we have weathered Brexit rather well.

That's truly amazing as we haven't left yet.

Dee_Best

Theophile wrote: »

That's truly amazing as we haven't left yet.

You say, very nicely sidestepping all the issues raised.


P.S.
What do YOU call the three-and-a-half years since the referendum if not Brexit?

Herzlos

jimi_man wrote: »

Brexit chaos - Yep, it has been badly handled and I have to say that every single party in Westminster must shoulder the blame. The only party with a cogent Brexit strategy are the Lib Dems, and this is only because they have done a dramatic U turn from their original stance following the referendum in 2016 when they were going to honour the result. Unusually for the Lib Dems they changed their minds. Anyway Brexit is a whole other argument and probably not for here.

Brexit was introduced by the Tories to bring the party together, and has been managed by the Tories ever since. It's hardly fair (or credible) to blame anyone else for it. Corbyn offered to take over when the Tories couldn't form a government and had to resort to the DUP which completely hamstrung them.


Plus, Labour has the only credible Brexit plan, as suggested by Jacob Reese-Mogg - Negotate a deal with the EU, let the people decide if they want it or not, enact it.


Lib Dems unilateral cancellation approach will upset about half the country, and Tories brexit means brexit will upset everyone.

Racism – A little bit vague, I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean?

Reported incidents of racist/xenophobic hate crimes launched up after the Brexit. Whether that is because people are more likely to report it now, or we gave validity to racists I don't know. I do remember Poland threatened to send some Polish police officers to protect their communities over here.

Herzlos

oddjobbpb wrote: »

Thy can't just agree to differ. I fully realise we get extremes from both sides on this board, I'm talking generally.

That happens on both sides.

If your views differ and you happen to think that grafting, getting on, paying your way and generally making things better for yourself and your children, then the vitriol on facebook etc is incredible.

The thing is, and I know this upsets a lot of those on the right, that pure graft isn't necessarily going to lead to success - some of the hardest workers are also the poorest. There's a well documented bias there where people think they have done it all themselves but have had numerous subtle advantages.

For instance, my parents could afford for me to have a computer at home for school homework, and could afford for me to stay at home rent free for part of my uni career in order to focus on study. I worked hard to get where I am now, but I can acknowledge I didn't do it on my own.


Do you think it's a coincidence that kids of wealthy parents tend to get uni degrees and well paid jobs, whilst kids of poor parents tend to be doing lower paid jobs?
Some seem to think that lack of intelligence makes people poor, but studies have shown the opposite - poverty makes people less smart.



The easiest way to generate money is with capital. A window cleaner has an upper cap on earnings (in that he can only work so many hours a week), yet the manager of a window cleaning company has no upper cap as he can always hire more staff. Someone starting window cleaning with £100 will only be able to buy basic stuff that'll take him longer to do the job and be less productive than someone who can invest £10,000 in it. The former guy can built up to the position of the latter guy, sure, but it'll take him years to get to the point the latter guy started at.


In some parts of the UK, property prices (and equity) are growing faster than the average salary - there are plenty of people whose house earns more than they do. The only want to be able to take advantage of that though, is by having enough cash to get on the housing market.

Zero_Gravitas

FYI - Michael Gove himself gave out this number today for anyone who wants to complain about the liar Boris Johnson's cowardly avoidance of scutiny by Andrew Neil. It's the Press Office at 10 Downing Street: 0207 930 4433.

The person I spoke to seemed slightly unhappy and certainly very harrassed this morning. Can't think why :-)