A Question for Tory Supporters

Arklight

Moby wrote: »

Actually Corbyn has never said anything which shows he is sympathetic to those that use violence; Whereas Johnson has been busy pouring his invective of hate against people generally... women or gay people or black people or moslem people in trite newspaper columns and is nothing but a hack who displays an ignorance of terrorism and the causes of it. He's a populist liar in the mould of Trump who says whatever it takes to keep him in power.

And this is the issue. Prior to Trump, a politician being seen as a liar, a cheat, a misogynist, and an incompetent, would see them out of office. Now it stokes their right wing base and if anything increases their popularity.

There is nothing noteworthy about Donald Trump. He is very obviously, a nasty, narcissistic, rather dim man, obsessed with his own self interest, disliked by those around around him, and placed where he is due to his inherited privilege rather than any innate ability.

Boris Johnson is exactly the same. The British version.

When Trump demanded that American politicians - critical of him, American born and raised, "go back to their broken and crime infested" countries, with the usual spike in hate crimes that ensued, his popularity rating spiked.

When "Bojo" is caught calling black people "picannies," gay men, "tank top wearing bum boys," Muslim women as, "Letterboxes," and had the police called out by his neighbours because they suspect he's knocking his missus around, his British right wing base hammer the like button. It means he's "human" apparently. an awful human, but that seems to be what most English people think a leader is meant to look like. The characteristic of a complete fool invoking some form of down home wisdom that eludes the hated "experts."

This is the age of idiot politics, and the Tories have plugged right into them.

Arklight

And the Tories continue to crumble in the polls, now just 6 points ahead of Labour according to the Mail. "Bojo" now agreeing to do another interview with Andrew Neil, after getting rather a rough ride from Andrew Marr.

In the comments for same, there is this:

after hearing his "it's all labour's fault" lies on here, it was refreshing to go onto boris johnson's twitter feed and find a detailed informed overview of a complex topic. how very un-boris-like i thought. then, at the bottom, the top reply, from "the secret barrister" accusing him of plag iarising a blog he had written. and blow me down, he had! he'd literally copied and pasted bits of it, including using the same links as sources, and left out the bits that made the conservatives look bad. the man has no shame. the prime minister of this country literally passing of someone's else's work as his own. i bet that's how he got through school, paying "girly swots" to do his homework for him while he played rugby. you would have to be bonkers to vote for this man.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7743319/Boris-Johnson-finally-commits-election-interview-Andrew-Neil.html#comments

Surely not, I thought. Even, cheeky, lovable, charming, lying "Bojo" isn't venal enough to copy someone else's entire blog post and pass it off as his own. So I went on Twitter and had a look myself, and that's exactly what he has done.

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1201076439250087936

The Secret Barrister, who's post he has stolen, is fuming. And a barrister, so we'll see what happens next.

chucknorris

Arklight wrote: »

And the Tories continue to crumble in the polls

Current Betfair prices (approx):

Most seats won
1/20 Tory
20/1 Labour

Overall majority
1/2 Tory
9/4 No overall majority
32/1 Labour

About the same as they were over a week ago.

EDIT: Next government
1/2 Tory majority
15/2 Labour minority
12/1 Tory minority (large price because the expectation is a majority)
17/1 Lab/SNP colalition
33/1 bar

Prime minister after general election (betfair not currently showing this market, this is only 1 fixed odds bookie's odds, hence the large over round)
1/5 Boris
11/4 JC
80/1 JS

GreatApe

Arklight wrote: »

And this is the issue. Prior to Trump, a politician being seen as a liar, a cheat, a misogynist, and an incompetent, would see them out of office. Now it stokes their right wing base and if anything increases their popularity.

Would Corbyn have gotten a pass a generation or two ago?
Uneducated/incompetent? Check. Two grade Es at a levels
Cheat/misogynist? On his third wife each one younger than the next

By your criteria you would be voting for Jacob. Like him or dislike him you probably wouldn't call him a liar or a cheat or incompetent.

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Actually Corbyn has never said anything which shows he is sympathetic to those that use violence;

Turning a blind eye to hate and violence in his position is not acceptable
Corbyn and especially Ronald McDonald is vile he propagates and gives credibility to violence against those who hold conservative views

Generally the left have a problem they are turning a blind eye to what is their supporters willingness to be abusive to conservatives

If left unchecked this will end badly. As Peterson says the right will only accept this for so long before they say okay buddy if you want to go down this road let's go

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/conservatives/video-2056042/Video-Aggressive-man-screams-Tory-campaigner-hes-canvassing.html

Moby

GreatApe wrote: »

Turning a blind eye to hate and violence in his position is not acceptable
Corbyn and especially Ronald McDonald is vile he propagates and gives credibility to violence against those who hold conservative views

Generally the left have a problem they are turning a blind eye to what is their supporters willingness to be abusive to conservatives

If left unchecked this will end badly. As Peterson says the right will only accept this for so long before they say okay buddy if you want to go down this road let's go

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/conservatives/video-2056042/Video-Aggressive-man-screams-Tory-campaigner-hes-canvassing.html

Corbyn was slow to act but there is no direct evidence he is anti semitic.
Here is Theresa May a few days ago unveiling a statue to Nancy Astor a known anti semite and nazi sympathiser. Imagine the reaction if it had been Corbyn!
https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/29/theresa-may-fire-unveiling-statue-nazi-sympathising-mp-11242921/

Herzlos

undetterred wrote: »

If we get Brexit done properly we can filter these idiots out, as for de-radicalizing, waste of time and money,stop them coming in....

What about the ones that are born here?

Herzlos

GreatApe wrote: »

Turning a blind eye to hate and violence in his position is not acceptable

Corbyn denounces hate and violence at every opportunity and pushes for peaceful resolution.


Johnson refuses to tone down his language that's been directly responsible (and quoted in) death threats made by the right wing to MPs.

Theophile

London Bridge attack: Boris Johnson ignores family’s plea not to exploit victims' deaths

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/johnson-ignores-family-plea-not-204311955.html

Despite one of the victims’ families pleading for their son’s death not to be used as an excuse for kneejerk political reaction, Johnson claimed that “a lefty government” was responsible for Usman Khan being freed.

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SmashedAvacado

The whole idea of "politicising" the recent terror attack is nonsense.

The journo's are asking the questions.
The readers want to know what they think
You can't criticise the candidates for giving an answer.

Everyone with an ounce of sense is sympathetic to the horrors of attacks like these. It's legitimate for candidates to explain how they might change / deal / handle in the wake of such attacks. It's also legitimate to make the point that we are where we are because of decisions made by others.
That does not disrespect the victims.

As a public we should want a political discussion on this kind of thing.