A Question for Tory Supporters

ess0two

kangoora wrote: »

Wow, this post has to rank as one of the most elitist verbal excrement posts I have ever seen.

My eldest went to one of those so-called 'dud' universities and is shortly to qualify as a Maths teacher, which requires a degree.

My other son also went to a similar Uni, qualified with a first and is now halfway through a Masters and wants to enter medical research when finished.

I presume you're looking down your nose at both of these from your ivory tower, even though one intends a career helping today's youth and the other intending to devote his career to helping people by medical research.

It's very rare that I am actually disgusted by a post on these forums but you've managed it.

Unfortunately that post is bang on, too many are duped into racking up endless debt on pointless courses.

Just one big scam, and yes too many average students go to uni.

Fran_Klee

kangoora wrote: »

Wow, this post has to rank as one of the most elitist verbal excrement posts I have ever seen.

My eldest went to one of those so-called 'dud' universities and is shortly to qualify as a Maths teacher, which requires a degree.

My other son also went to a similar Uni, qualified with a first and is now halfway through a Masters and wants to enter medical research when finished.

I presume you're looking down your nose at both of these from your ivory tower, even though one intends a career helping today's youth and the other intending to devote his career to helping people by medical research.

It's very rare that I am actually disgusted by a post on these forums but you've managed it.

:T
Sadly some here refuse to even try and see beyond their hatred and bias.
You'll no doubt be ridiculed and have your experiences dismissed as "anecdotal" because it can't possibly be true.
In their eyes it never can be.

BobQ

kangoora wrote: »

Wow, this post has to rank as one of the most elitist verbal excrement posts I have ever seen.

Not sure that this is very helpful.

Fact is that over the last 40 years more people have been going to University. Fact is that we have moved from having a small set of quality universities to having a larger number of Universities.

In the past I was one of the lucky 5% who went to uni but at that time there was a good argument that the limited number of places was unfair to those that were capable getting a degree but were unable to do so because of the limited places. Others went to more vocational training in Colleges and Polytechnics.

The question we need to take a view on is whether the 40% who now get a degree would have got a degree when only 5% went. If so, then fine, but it is valid to say that standards have fallen. Now using terms like "dud" is not helpful either, but degrees are not "badges for going" they either help employers know which are the best candidates or they provide training (which used to be funded by employers).

But the questions we need to be asking are the same: Do we need to have more people going to university? Have standards fallen overall? Are degrees necessary for all careers?

Your children like others use the system provided as best they can and you have reason to be proud of them. I suspect they would have got a degree whichever uni they had attended. But whichever way you look at it, employers often prioritize people from the more established universities compared to those from the newer ones.

Arklight

It's worth pointing out that the less educated people are, the more likely they are to vote Tory. This offers a fairly compelling justification for the dislike the Right has for Education and educated people in general. Education (state education, not their own ivory towers of learning) always suffers under Tory administrations, because they don't want people to be educated. Because educated people don't vote Tory.

The theme that ignorance has some kind of inherent integrity lacking from "experts" is central to right wing propaganda in both the US and the UK. The more people who identify with this, the more right wing voters there are.

ess0two

Arklight wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that the less educated people are, the more likely they are to vote Tory. This offers a fairly compelling justification for the dislike the Right has for Education and educated people in general. Education (state education, not their own ivory towers of learning) always suffers under Tory administrations, because they don't want people to be educated. Because educated people don't vote Tory.

The theme that ignorance has some kind of inherent integrity lacking from "experts" is central to right wing propaganda in both the US and the UK. The more people who identify with this, the more right wing voters there are.

You've gotta back up that sweeping generalisation about less educated people?

Herzlos

ess0two wrote: »

You've gotta back up that sweeping generalisation about less educated people?

Education seems to have been the big defining factor in Brexit:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-education-higher-university-study-university-leave-eu-remain-voters-educated-a7881441.html
https://www.theweek.co.uk/89378/fact-check-did-uk-s-better-educated-vote-remain


It's also a big factor in voting preference
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/04/25/demographics-dividing-britain
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39936927


The right wing have always been against educated people:
"Education is dangerous - every educated person is a future enemy." ~Herman Goering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Nazi_propaganda#Intellectuals

Thrugelmir

Originally Posted by Arklight View Post
It's worth pointing out that the less educated people are, the more likely they are to vote Tory.

Explains why one political party has become detached from the people it purports to represent.

Arklight

Tory poll lead plunging. Johnson back in hung parliament territory.

I presume I'm not the only one who wanted to throw something at the TV when he was pontificating about why we shouldn't let terrorists out early, as if his miserable government had nothing to do with this, in the wake of the latest terror attack.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-latest-poll-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-bmg-hung-parliament-a9227476.html

phillw

Arklight wrote: »

I presume I'm not the only one who wanted to throw something at the TV when he was pontificating about why we shouldn't let terrorists out early, as if his miserable government had nothing to do with this, in the wake of the latest terror attack.

Yeah the Tories have cut rehabilitation funding in prison so that people will come out of prison and re-offend so they can justify extending prison sentences.

They'll be looking for excuses to bring back the death penalty soon.

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/11/26/tory-candidate-tried-to-set-up-doorstep-triumph-failed-epically/

I'm not an expert in deradicalizing people, but I suspect whatever pittance the Tories are paying to do it is not enough. Successive UK governments have done a lot to radicalize people, so putting the entire blame on the people who become radicalized is not honest at all.

kangoora wrote: »

The one thing I can agree on is that there are a number of 'dud' degrees.

It's a rather pejorative word, there are some degrees that are used in future employment and some that aren't. If you get a law or medical degree but end up in finance then it's just as much of a "dud" as someone who took klingon. I do think some universities are dishonest about job prospects and even talking about industry networking connections they can provide which ultimately evaporate once you've signed up.

The secondary school I went to did nothing in guiding me in subject selection, you were basically expected to figure it out yourself and if you can't then they expect you'll only ever work in the local factory anyway so there is no point. Which is fine until the local factory closes and all jobs require a degree (any degree) before they'll bring you in for an interview. At that point you may as well have fun learning klingon for three years.

undetterred

phillw wrote: »

Yeah the Tories have cut rehabilitation funding in prison so that people will come out of prison and re-offend so they can justify extending prison sentences.

They'll be looking for excuses to bring back the death penalty soon.

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/11/26/tory-candidate-tried-to-set-up-doorstep-triumph-failed-epically/

I'm not an expert in deradicalizing people, but I suspect whatever pittance the Tories are paying to do it is not enough. Successive UK governments have done a lot to radicalize people, so putting the entire blame on the people who become radicalized is not honest at all.



It's a rather pejorative word, there are some degrees that are used in future employment and some that aren't. If you get a law or medical degree but end up in finance then it's just as much of a "dud" as someone who took klingon. I do think some universities are dishonest about job prospects and even talking about industry networking connections they can provide which ultimately evaporate once you've signed up.

The secondary school I went to did nothing in guiding me in subject selection, you were basically expected to figure it out yourself and if you can't then they expect you'll only ever work in the local factory anyway so there is no point. Which is fine until the local factory closes and all jobs require a degree (any degree) before they'll bring you in for an interview. At that point you may as well have fun learning klingon for three years.

If we get Brexit done properly we can filter these idiots out, as for de-radicalizing, waste of time and money,stop them coming in....