A Question for Tory Supporters

Herzlos

Dee_Best wrote: »

Do explain.

Joe's social mobility is hugely hampered by poverty. He couldn't afford to go to university and is therefore blocked from any career path requiring university. He could easily be smarter or the better lawyer than Tarquin, but he's stuck at one of the first hurdles, and will spend the rest of his life trying to catch up.

phillw

Dee_Best wrote: »

Quite apart from your use of the ridiculous, the only lawyers earning good money are those that are actually very good at what they do & previous/family wealth has nothing whatsoever to do with ability.

You're forgetting that not all people who would make good lawyers actually get that opportunity because of their financial situation and education.

You might have a degree, but without a training contract you aren't going anywhere.

Fran_Klee

Herzlos wrote: »

Joe's social mobility is hugely hampered by poverty. He couldn't afford to go to university and is therefore blocked from any career path requiring university. He could easily be smarter or the better lawyer than Tarquin, but he's stuck at one of the first hurdles, and will spend the rest of his life trying to catch up.

What utter carp.

That's how record numbers are attending uni is it - you're choosing to ignore the way money is thrown at those less-privileged just so that they can improve themselves by not only getting loans (before you start, that argument is better debated elsewhere but you will get a loan) but they get their housing paid and as a single parent they would even get tax credits.

Your ignorance of how much assistance is available to the disadvantaged in order to help them improve themselves is obvious.
But don't take my word for it.

Record numbers of young people from the most disadvantaged backgrounds in the UK have won places to go to university this year, according to the admissions agency Ucas.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/19/record-number-of-disadvantaged-pupils-get-university-places

Herzlos

I'm not debating that it's technically possible. Impointing out that the deck is heavily stacked towards the already wealthy.

Arklight

Fran_Klee wrote: »

What utter carp.

That's how record numbers are attending uni is it - you're choosing to ignore the way money is thrown at those less-privileged just so that they can improve themselves by not only getting loans (before you start, that argument is better debated elsewhere but you will get a loan) but they get their housing paid and as a single parent they would even get tax credits.

Your ignorance of how much assistance is available to the disadvantaged in order to help them improve themselves is obvious.
But don't take my word for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/19/record-number-of-disadvantaged-pupils-get-university-places

If you believe that there is no opportunity penalty to being born poor you must live on a different planet, let alone a different country.

But, this is the familiar poor blaming leitmotif of the Tory.

They're all layabouts, its their own fault, there's all this help (despite the fact the governments you keep voting for are eradicating it).

In some part of this fantasy land, blue chip companies whose staff lists are a roll call of elite alma maters, are lining up outside FE colleges to employ people who have the grit and determination to overcome impoverished circumstances that are entirely alien to the Boris Johnsons of the world.

If life is a race, people who are poor start far behind the rich. Yes, some of them catch up and overtake them. But that's because being born wealthy isn't actually an inoculation against being an unremarkable under achiever.

fatbeetle

Fran_Klee

Arklight wrote: »

If you believe that there is no opportunity penalty to being born poor you must live on a different planet, let alone a different country.

Nowhere did I say that or even suggest that but don't let that stop you making up your own excuses to have a rant.

You don't know how lucky you are & that's the problem with so many of you snowflake idealists; in Britain just like in the rest of the western world you're at a huge advantage as soon as you're born no matter how rich or poor your parents are.
If you want to see how real poverty affects people look at India, or at most African nations.
Why do you think so many of them try so desperately to get here or the rest of Europe; for the weather?
I don't think you are interested in equality at all, it's just an excuse to have another anti-establishment rant.

Takedap

Fran_Klee wrote: »

Nowhere did I say that or even suggest that but don't let that stop you making up your own excuses to have a rant.

You don't know how lucky you are & that's the problem with so many of you snowflake idealists; in Britain just like in the rest of the western world you're at a huge advantage as soon as you're born no matter how rich or poor your parents are.
If you want to see how real poverty affects people look at India, or at most African nations.
Why do you think so many of them try so desperately to get here or the rest of Europe; for the weather?
I don't think you are interested in equality at all, it's just an excuse to have another anti-establishment rant.

I think I can hear Land of Hope & Glory playing in the background.,......

Takedap

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm not debating that it's technically possible. Impointing out that the deck is heavily stacked towards the already wealthy.

Is there anybody on here that truly believes that Boris has got any of his jobs based solely on his personal abilities?

Be honest now!

Cakeguts

Fran_Klee wrote: »

What utter carp.

That's how record numbers are attending uni is it - you're choosing to ignore the way money is thrown at those less-privileged just so that they can improve themselves by not only getting loans (before you start, that argument is better debated elsewhere but you will get a loan) but they get their housing paid and as a single parent they would even get tax credits.

Your ignorance of how much assistance is available to the disadvantaged in order to help them improve themselves is obvious.
But don't take my word for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/19/record-number-of-disadvantaged-pupils-get-university-places

When I was going to university ( and there were a lot fewer of them then we didn't have technical colleges called universities) anyone who had to get into university through clearing was looked on as being a failure simply because we all knew then that the popular courses at good universities didn't have places at clearing.



What I don't understand is why people don't realise this now. Plus we have so many dud universities that all they do is to make jobs available for the staff. I live in London and here we have 11 dud universities that could completely disappear and no one would notice they had gone.



The poor students who are duped by their schools into attending them ( at one point I wondered if schools were being paid by universities to send their students to them) would be debt free and working probably in the same jobs as they get after attending these duds. The point about all of this so called university education is that it only benefits the loan companies and the staff.



If you attend a dud university all you are going to get is debt. Nothing else. You will get exactly the same job as you would have done if you had never been because these universities don't offer education levels that are of any use to the UK economy. They don't help anyone get a better job all they do is keep the staff employed.



The problem is that someone who can only get into a dud university generally isn't all that intelligent and I personally don't think that it is as good idea to imply to someone who isn't all that bright that borrowing money is something that they need to do. It is asking for trouble.



A lot of the courses that are run at these "universities" used to be evening class courses but now that they are called degrees students can be charged for them even if the contact time at university is no more than the equivalent of one evening a week for a whole year.



The whole university thing is a massive scam.



Not only that but if the government is wanting to reduce carbon emissions then closing all the dud universities would go a long way towards reducing carbon emissions as buildings are the biggest users of energy. Many university courses could be done at a much smaller cost as distance learning like the Open University courses are now. It would be interesting to see how many people would be keen to study for a degree if they did it at home. Distance learning would mean a smaller loan and no housing costs. A much better system that what we have now.