A Question for Tory Supporters

Arklight

LHW99 wrote: »

I think you have the wrong idea here. As I remember that part of the discussion, the issue was the EU wanted (has put in?) regulations for deactivation of firearms that are / would be less stringent than the original UK ones making it easier for them to be reactivated by criminals.

All the Lithuanian criminals who want to come here and shoot our jobs with their EU branded replica rifles. It'll be carnage, when will common sense reign, get us out of this nightmare etc etc

Pobby

For me, this is not just about a change in policies. This has to be a fundamental change. Now 70, I can look back at far more stable and better times. I firmly believe that many of the current problems have stemmed from the Thatcher years.
Selling off of council housing has resulted in a massive rise in the private sector. Some properties not fir for habitation. Not that the Tories care about that. No proper rent control and for many, no chance of owning. Something that my wife and I were able to do in the mid-'70s. Oh and not a shoebox of a one-bedroom flat but a 3 bedroom semi in the southeast. Under the Tories, housing policy has been pretty much abandoned.
I never recalled homelessness as a young man, or indeed met anyone who was. Today I see it everywhere. That is sickening.
I enjoyed free further education, a national health service fully funded. Remember many of these benefits were introduced by the Labour party. Once again, under Thatcher, the erosion started. A woman who I think had not too much compassion.
The closure or restructuring of heavy industry was necessary but done in a way that divided communities and that and the deprivation is clearly seen today.
Like many of my age, we did the right thing. Paid into pensions and saved but have been at the mercy of a lightly regulated financial industry. Crashed in 2008 and more than possible heading for another crash.
Oh I could go on but for many the system is rotten to the cored. I could never vote Tory and will vote Labour but that is not enough. We need to turn around a system that is set up for a few to do very well and many to fight for the crumbs.

phillw

Pobby wrote: »

We need to turn around a system that is set up for a few to do very well and many to fight for the crumbs.

I think it will be tricky, the whole brexit con was pulled off by the few wanting to rig it further in their favor.

phillw

LHW99 wrote: »

I think you have the wrong idea here. As I remember that part of the discussion, the issue was the EU wanted (has put in?) regulations for deactivation of firearms that are / would be less stringent than the original UK ones making it easier for them to be reactivated by criminals.

The EU has set a minimum level, but member states are entitled to set a higher level.

If a firearm doesn't meet the UK standard then you can't import it into the UK.

From stuff I read online it seems some people were saying that firearms deactivated to the higher UK standard before 2018 would not be allowed to be exported to the EU even with their lower standards, but I can't figure out whether this was based on fact or made up because of prejudice.

Theophile

'vox-pop' item on Sky News last week.

Elderly man standing in some god-forgotten Northern high street with most shops boarded up thanks to a decade of Tory austerity.
He had three or four gnashers left in his mouth, probably due to a complete lack of dental care provision in the area after a decade of Tory cuts. He was muttering something about bus services being cut.


But he was going to vote Tory.
Why?
'Because he likes Boris.'

MobileSaver

Pobby wrote: »

Now 70, I can look back at far more stable and better times. Something that my wife and I were able to do in the mid-'70s. ... but a 3 bedroom semi in the southeast. ... I never recalled homelessness as a young man, ... will vote Labour

With all due respect to someone a generation older than myself you seem to have a very rose-tinted view of the past and particularly of Labour being in power.

Regarding the Financial Crash of 2008, I am sure you do not need reminding that Labour had been in power for 11 years when the Crash happened.

Thatcher's Right To Buy has become a problem but the problem stems from local councils (both Conservative and Labour) not replacing stock like they are supposed to.

You must have been relatively well off in your younger days; from numerous conversations with family and friends, not a single person in my circle of acquaintances was able to afford a 3 bed semi as a FTB, yes for many that was their second home once on the property ladder but never as a first home.

I vividly recall my very first trip to London 30+ years ago to see a concert, there were homeless people everywhere and two separate beggars actually approached my friend and I with literally "got any change guv."

Pobby wrote: »

We need to turn around a system that is set up for a few to do very well and many to fight for the crumbs.

I simply don't accept that; the system we have means anyone in the UK can come from nothing to become a millionaire if they have the right attitude, a bit of luck and are prepared to work hard.

Yes property is probably more expensive now than it was but that is one negative out of hundreds of positives of the romantic "better times you remember from the 70's." Most houses now have central heating and double glazing. Most people now have the world's information at their fingertips both at home and when out and about. Travel to other countries can be as cheap as chips. Unemployment is the lowest it has been in 45 years. The list goes on.

The problem I see is that the younger generation want everything now. They see the nice house, nice car and nice things their parents have, and they want it right now; conveniently forgetting their parents worked and saved for 20 years to be able to afford those things.

Herzlos

The crash was down to high risk banking and sub-prime US mortgages. It was going to happen no matter who was in power. You can't really blame Labour for a global crash caused by another country.

LHW99 wrote: »

I think you have the wrong idea here. As I remember that part of the discussion, the issue was the EU wanted (has put in?) regulations for deactivation of firearms that are / would be less stringent than the original UK ones making it easier for them to be reactivated by criminals.

The argument I'd heard was that it was stricter and meant that anyone wanting to sell a deactivated weapon in the UK they now needed to take it to the Manchester Armoury and pay again for deactivation/confirmation. It could be that the UK standard is higher but it needs to be re-certified for the EU standard.


It didn't seem to affect many people anyway.

Herzlos

MobileSaver wrote: »

I simply don't accept that; the system we have means anyone in the UK can come from nothing to become a millionaire if they have the right attitude, a bit of luck and are prepared to work hard.

It's possible to work up from nothing to be a millionaire, but it's vanishingly unlikely in this environment.
It's an awful lot easier to be born into a rich family and 'work' your way up to being a millionaire. Boris Johnson certainly didn't get to where he was through talent or people skills. I've no idea about his siblings but there's definitely a trend towards rich kids going on to be successful.


Social mobility and equality are vastly down these days.

Dee_Best

Herzlos wrote: »

It's possible to work up from nothing to be a millionaire, but it's vanishingly unlikely in this environment.
It's an awful lot easier to be born into a rich family and 'work' your way up to being a millionaire. Boris Johnson certainly didn't get to where he was through talent or people skills. I've no idea about his siblings but there's definitely a trend towards rich kids going on to be successful.


Social mobility and equality are vastly down these days.

Much of that has to do with their can-do attitude as opposed to your own "we're doomed" constant glass-half-empty defeatism.

Since the beginning of time there have been people that will make something out of nothing and make far more for themselves than others.
Such is human nature.
It's also human nature to be wasteful and many of what I suspect you regard as "privileged" families even now continue to struggle keeping up enough income to maintain what they have; see how many great homes the National Trust are gifted as an example.

Social mobility and equality are in fact much improved but you would never accept that; on balance we're all better off than we were in earlier generations.

Takedap

MobileSaver wrote: »

I simply don't accept that; the system we have means anyone in the UK can come from nothing to become a millionaire if they have the right attitude, a bit of luck and are prepared to work hard.

The old "poverty is a choice" argument. Much favoured by people who were born into money.