A Question for Tory Supporters

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Congratulations?

https://www.imgpaste.net/image/rV87m

Just more leave lies. It's kinda surreal trying to debate with people who are so entrenched they won't even believe that if I say an article is behind a pay wall, it's behind a pay wall.

Are you calling me a lier, if you are I think that says a lot about you, because it did. Perhaps Filo's post explains why and you owe me an apology.

Fran_Klee

ukcarper wrote: »

Are you calling me a lier, if you are I think that says a lot about you, because it did. Perhaps Filo's post explains why and you owe me an apology.

No chance your apology, see:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=76294568&postcount=6079
and
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=76294658&postcount=6080

It doesn't matter that you, I and nearly everybody else can open the link no problem.
Even an explanation by another person is ignored.

Regardless of proof or evidence it would have to be untrue, just because ........ well, just because.
It's so ridiculous that it reminds me of this:
https://filmthreat.com/reviews/deny-everything/

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

You’ll refuse to recognise it, but to vast tracts of the population now, its the left that is identified as the home of fascistic behaviours now.
The obsession with identity politics coupled with a thoroughly nasty invective is something you probably recognise in yourself. Or perhaps you don’t.

Now? Accusing anyone left of centre of wanting to set up a Trotskyist dystopia has been the leitmotif of the Right since McCarthy.

Meanwhile more hospitals and schools shut or fall into disrepair, and ever greater percentages of the nation's wealth is concentrated in the hands of an ever smaller percentage of the population. Which none of you want to think about, not when there are single mothers and foreigners to blame for the pothole at the end of the road.

Tromking

Arklight wrote: »

Which none of you want to think about, not when there are single mothers and foreigners to blame for the pothole at the end of the road.

Identity politics writ large again. The left simply cannot help itself.

Arklight

Tromking wrote: »

Identity politics writ large again. The left simply cannot help itself.

The point you are (spectacularly) missing, is that if every time there is an election you go and vote for a political party that is openly hostile to foreigners and the poor and is frequently referred to as "the nasty party", then that is what you become known for. That is your identity.

If you really want people not to think you are xenophobe who approves of creating a "hostile environment" for immigrants, that using European residents as "pawns" is fine, and that has no apparent problem with cruel benefit cuts that are leading vulnerable people to set fire to themselves in Job Centres in despair while the rich shirk more of their tax burden than ever; then just stop voting Tory.

Or keep quiet about it (which, to be honest, is what most Tory voters do).

Tromking

Arklight wrote: »

The point you are (spectacularly) missing, is that if every time there is an election you go and vote for a political party that is openly hostile to foreigners and the poor and is frequently referred to as "the nasty party", then that is what you become known for. That is your identity.

If you really want people not to think you are xenophobe who approves of creating a "hostile environment" for immigrants, that using European residents as "pawns" is fine, and that has no apparent problem with cruel benefit cuts that are leading vulnerable people to set fire to themselves in Job Centres in despair while the rich shirk more of their tax burden than ever; then just stop voting Tory.

Or keep quiet about it (which, to be honest, is what most Tory voters do).

.......and the point which and your fellow travellers on the angry left are spectacularly missing is that you can be in favour of controlled migration and indeed other right of centre policies and not be a racist or a xenophobe.

phillw

Tromking wrote: »

.......and the point which and your fellow travellers on the angry left are spectacularly missing is that you can be in favour of controlled migration and indeed other right of centre policies and not be a racist or a xenophobe.

I completely accept you can be in favor of controlled migration without admitting you're a racist or xenophobe. How would you know if you were being xenophobic? It would seem perfectly acceptable to you & of course you wouldn't want to think of yourself as being xenophobic as that is bad.

I guess you could explain why you want to control immigration and how you feel about the rest of the leave voters who are xenophobic and the obvious consequences for foreigners as well as ourselves, to the point where only xenophobic people will actually get a benefit from leaving the EU.

SpiderLegs

phillw wrote: »

I completely accept you can be in favor of controlled migration without admitting you're a racist or xenophobe. How would you know if you were being xenophobic? It would seem perfectly acceptable to you & of course you wouldn't want to think of yourself as being xenophobic as that is bad.

I guess you could explain why you want to control immigration and how you feel about the rest of the leave voters who are xenophobic and the obvious consequences for foreigners as well as ourselves, to the point where only xenophobic people will actually get a benefit from leaving the EU.

Do I take it from this that you believe in uncontrolled immigration?

lvader

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Do I take it from this that you believe in uncontrolled immigration?

You don't need to worry about immigration when living in a Marxist state, you need to keep people in.

phillw

SpiderLegs wrote: »

Do I take it from this that you believe in uncontrolled immigration?

We've never completely had uncontrolled immigration, so I don't know what it would be like.

But free movement for EU citizens (with some necessary caveats that we can use if we choose) that we currently enjoy has benefited everyone in this country.

I certainly don't want to have to pay millions of pounds a week to keep track of people coming and going and vetting them.

Ideally it would be great if there was free movement of people among all countries, but there are huge barriers to that. You'd need to wait until everyone was prepared to live under the same laws first.

Anyway, back to the topic. I wonder how much time Boris has left, that public money he gave to the woman he probably slept with can't be ignored forever. Do conservatives still support him?