CPM parking charge - 3 tickets

JEK

Hi,

I am new here and I have read a few threads already on the subject and I am looking for some advice - what should I do now? pay the fine with the smaller fee of £60 per ticket or just ignore them and see what happens?

Please bare with me on this one.. I have received 3 Parking charge notices for the same 'offence' on different occasions within around 2 weeks.
I work in an office in Manchester which is also a block of apartment buildings and a few other offices.

The car park provided is private land and is position inside a block of buildings so is out of the way of the public. its only small and has limited spaces. In the morning sometimes all of the bays are full, in this situation I will park my vehicle opposite the bays. There is a wall, side walk and some very large rectangular plant pots which are actually in the road. I will park my vehicle in-between these plant pots; not obstructing any vehicles, bins or people and i will come back an hour or two later and hopefully find a bay.

Now, I have been doing this for around 6 month's without any issue. However recently when going to move my vehicle I saw a ticket man giving someone else's vehicle a ticket. At this point I asked the man if I was okay (as I wasn't in a bay), his reply was - 'yes as long as you have a permit displayed'. (the permits are a paper cut out which has; date, time issued, time expires, phone number, apartment, expires date.

A couple of weeks ago I found myself with a Parking Charge Notice on my window-screen from UK Car Parking Management. The reason for this was - no valid ticket displayed.

I regret this but I instantly went into the office and emailed them with a basic appeal. Only giving them my name and asking for proof that the permit isn't valid.

Anyway.. two weeks later I have received my third ticket yesterday.. They have emailed a response to the first ticket rejecting the appeal. Basically the parking permit says in small writing at the bottom - only valid if parked within a bay.

I will no longer be using the car park and will have to find an alternative, I know I have been very naive and should have took action from the first ticket.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Coupon-mad

As it's Manchester Court who will hear this case later in the year, and their Judges are brilliant at kicking out UKCPM claims (I think we saw one this past week again) then dispute the claim but do not pay it.

Now, I have been doing this for around 6 month's without any issue. However recently when going to move my vehicle I saw a ticket man giving someone else's vehicle a ticket. At this point I asked the man if I was okay (as I wasn't in a bay), his reply was - 'yes as long as you have a permit displayed'. (the permits are a paper cut out which has; date, time issued, time expires, phone number, apartment, expires date.

What a scam, and a case of promissory estoppel which you may wish to Google and search the forum for defence examples.

Any scope for complaining to your office management or the freeholder of the site, to ask them to cancel the charges as you were lied to and entrapped?

JEK

Thanks for the response.

Yeah the comment from the ticket officer is frustrating as I wish I had recorded him for proof or something.

In regards to a route through my work there is no chance as there is no connection, our company simply rent the office.

JEK

Please can someone help, I have ignored all further letters from debt recovery agencies and have now received a court hearing for 1 of the tickets. (all 3 appeals had been rejected)

I have never done anything like this before and I feel I may have missed a few tricks. I have read somewhere that I should have been sent a Particulars of Claim? I assume this is what grounds they have to make a claim against me? The only communication and reason I have received so far is:

Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking. Signs clearly state that a valid permit must be displayed on dashboard/windscreen at all times. A valid permit was not displayed which is why. A PCN was issued.”

There is one main point that I have so far which is questioning their T's & C's but will that be enough? They have two signs, one that says no parking at any time (I was parked about 5 metres away from it) and another saying permit holders only, and that is literally all of the useful information on them. My defence is along these lines.. (first draft)

The only terms and conditions stated by the claimant are shown below.

As per the sign, It reads; ‘No Parking at any time. By parking or remaining on this land - You the driver accept liability to pay the parking charge for any failure to comply with the Terms and Conditions contained within this sign.

You will be liable for additional parking charges for each and any subsequent 24-hour period (or part thereof) that the vehicle remains or if it returns at any time.

We are not liable for any loss or damage howsoever caused to any person or property while on this site save under any statutory exceptions.

Failure to comply with the terms and conditions may result in the vehicle’s keeper details being requested from the DVLA.”

I must stress that the claimant has stated that all of the terms are contained within the sign only.

The terms and conditions do not state or even mention any information on where someone can or cannot, how long for or what day they can park their vehicles on the premises. It doesn’t mention any parking restrictions or give any specifics.

May I also add that nowhere does it declare that a permit must be displayed ‘at all times’ nor that it has to be ‘valid’ as the claimant is stating in their appeal rejection letter.

It only states ‘permits must be clearly displayed’ It does not say it has to be a valid permit or what makes a permit a valid one.

There is no definition of a ‘valid parking permit’ on any of the signs. The same signs which declare that all of the terms and conditions are on, also being referred to on their letter.

If anyone can help out it would be greatly appreciated.

Coupon-mad

You haven't received a 'court hearing' without filing a defence (impossible).

You mean a court claim form? If so, what is the issue date?

Your defence will look nothing like that. Please read the NEWBIES thread post #2.

JEK

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I apologise for rushing into this thread, now I have seen the newbies thread there is so much information to go through.

Yes sorry its a Court Claim form and the issue date is 21st Nov.

I will do my revision and come back with any further questions as im sure there will be many.

Thanks.

KeithP

JEK wrote: »

Yes sorry its a Court Claim form and the issue date is 21st Nov.

With a Claim Issue Date of 21st November, you have until Tuesday 10th December to do the Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 24th December 2019 to file your Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are trying to keep you under pressure. Just file it.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

JEK

Thanks, I have completed the AoS, I intend to get this sorted as soon as possible.

My concerns at this stage are my lack of engagement in all of this until now. After reading other threads I feel I may have missed some opportunities, Ie asking what evidence they have against me. By the time they respond to the requested information It will probably be too late. Actually.. haven written this I have checked my original appeal.. "Reason is no valid permit displayed, that is not the case. Please can you provide evidence of this - I clearly had a parking permit displayed."

Their response has not included any pictures or evidence, only the statement that I have mentioned in my previous reply. Surely this is not the correct practice?

In addition do you think that having two additional parking charges will be brought up and used against me? or that I may receive a court claim for the other two before this one is resolved? i'm worried that if I lose one I will have to pay an extortionate amount for all 3 and I just cannot afford it. I have a child on the way and have recently moved house.

Coupon-mad

My concerns at this stage are my lack of engagement in all of this until now.

Doesn't matter a jot, I'd say the majority of winners ignored the PCN, but you didn't, you appealed, which will look very reasonable to a Judge.

By the time they respond to the requested information It will probably be too late.

Who cares, same for everyone. You need to read more claim SAR threads as this always happens and you don't need the SAR to defend. The SAR info will help you later, at WS & evidence stage.

Their response has not included any pictures or evidence, only the statement that I have mentioned in my previous reply. Surely this is not the correct practice?

It is, because replies to appeals are just templates and the IPC don't care.

However the SAR will wheedle the photos out, in time for WS & evidence writing!

In addition do you think that having two additional parking charges will be brought up and used against me?

Maybe they will, but if you search the forum for Jack Chapman UKCPM you will find interesting stuff about their template WS...written by Gladstones. they are not likely to issue anything different than the usual copy & paste (do the Search, the Jack Chapman signature issue is interesting for you to look out for in 2020!).

or that I may receive a court claim for the other two before this one is resolved?

Quite possibly. Knock them down like skittles.

i'm worried that if I lose one I will have to pay an extortionate amount for all 3 and I just cannot afford it.

How do you work that out, given that even the odd person who loses, gets the sixty quid removed because it's unrecoverable, so they get LESS than the sum claimed...

...and we win 99% of the time, and you said you have 'NO PARKING AT ANY TIME' signage which cannot possibly be construed as an offer or allowing a parking licence!

Have you read CEC16's thread yet, re the Southampton hearing this month?

JEK

I appreciate your help.

I have read CEC16's post which is helpful and i hope my case will be as easy.

The Jack Chapman thing is a little confusing and i think im getting overwhelmed with all of the information. Reading many threads, lots of the WS and defences refer to different cases and acts. I know nothing about law and if i put any of that information in my WS and got questioned on it I wouldn't know what to say. I feel like I should keep it as simple as possible.

Is there any chance of me winning on the fact that there are no terms and conditions stated on the sign? bear in mind the 'permit' states only valid if parked within a bay, I did only notice after about 8 months of parking there.

I clearly was not parked within a bay, which i thought was okay because i wasn't blocking anything and there was no markings on the ground or a sign directly in front (but there is a few metres away stating No parking at anytime) of it to say I wasn't able to. The reception write a fresh permit everyday and if they had an issue with where I was parked then they wouldn't issue a permit.

What do you guys think, please be brutally honest. Most of the threads I have read, people have been genuinely ticketed for ridiculous reasons.

and is there anyway for me to upload a couple of photos?

JEK

Any extra help with my final defence would be appreciated, kept it short and sweet. tia.


In The County Court

Case number:

Claimant: BW Legal
Defendant:

Defence

The defendant denies liability to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim:

Background:

The PCN was issued at the defendant's place of work and the car park was used free of charge daily for almost a year. Each day reception would issue a parking permit to display on the dashboard. As soon as the defendant received the parking charge an appeal was made requesting evidence for the claim. Weeks later the defendant received a response that included no evidence and was a simple template.

1. The defendant had parked the vehicle in the car park causing no obstruction to any person or vehicle. It is unclear whether the area the vehicle was parked is not permitted.

2. It is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. They merely state that vehicles must clearly display a permit and no parking at any time. Neither giving any definition, nor indicating where vehicles can or cannot park or what is a valid or unvalid permit.

3. The defendant can provide multiple witness statements from colleagues as the parking attendant has verbally agreed with the defendant on a previous occasion that the area in question was suitable for parking. This, along with the very vague signs lead the defendant to believe that there was no issue with parking in that area.

4. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. The original £100 has increased by £60 for ‘debt recovery costs’. These costs are untrue as Debt Recovery Plus are part of the claimant company, they have simply changed letter header. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that the £50 as allegedly spent on 'legal representative’s costs were incurred.

The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that above submissions in relation to the Claimant.

Statement of Truth
I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

Signed

Date
19/12/19