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Will Brexit happen?
Comments
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So, is leaving the EU going to be financially prosperous for Britain or not?
Pre referendum:
“After we Vote Leave on 23 June, the Government should use some of the billions saved from leaving the EU to give at least a £100 million per week cash transfusion to the NHS.” Boris Johnson....
“If we Vote Leave, we will be able to increase funding to science and still save billions” Vote Leave....
“There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave… The idea that our trade will suffer because we stop imposing terrible rules such as the Clinical Trial Directive is silly.” Vote Leave....
Post referendum "we won't have more money to spend on the NHS or science but it won't be as bad as remainers say"...... Oh how wonderful Brexit is :money:0 -
However a lot of damage has already been done and is still being done by all the uncertainty. Extending article 50 doesn't stop any of that. The only way to move forward is cancelling the whole thing or leaving without a deal (save a miraculous change of heart from the EU).
I agree that repeatedly extending isn't great, but it's still better than no deal if it's possible to avoid it. The last three years have been wasted by the conservatives, so it would seem silly to surrender to fate at this stage of the game.
Cancelling the whole thing would be immensely satisfying to a lot of people, those who get upset would deserve it anyway. But I don't see it happening before 31st October.
IF we had someone in government who was good at negotiating who wanted the best for the country then they would have seen the mess that leaving would create, figure out a way to get what we need from the EU to paper over the cracks and also smooth it over with the public.
A lot of people say we survived before the EU and even the EEC, but they don't realise that before that we were a member of EFTA (like Switzerland and Norway). The EU would be happy for us to be EFTA members again.
Until we get the self serving conservatives out then we can't move forward with this, but the people are so whipped up in a frenzy because of the EU hate that was deliberately stirred up to win the referendum then it's not going to happen soon enough.0 -
I agree that repeatedly extending isn't great, but it's still better than no deal if it's possible to avoid it. The last three years have been wasted by the conservatives, so it would seem silly to surrender to fate at this stage of the game.
Cancelling the whole thing would be immensely satisfying to a lot of people, those who get upset would deserve it anyway. But I don't see it happening before 31st October.
IF we had someone in government who was good at negotiating who wanted the best for the country then they would have seen the mess that leaving would create, figure out a way to get what we need from the EU to paper over the cracks and also smooth it over with the public.
A lot of people say we survived before the EU and even the EEC, but they don't realise that before that we were a member of EFTA (like Switzerland and Norway). The EU would be happy for us to be EFTA members again.
Until we get the self serving conservatives out then we can't move forward with this, but the people are so whipped up in a frenzy because of the EU hate that was deliberately stirred up to win the referendum then it's not going to happen soon enough.
The current EFTA is nothing like what the UK was in. EFTA under the old rules? sure fine. New rules (including free movement of people) obviously would be against what people voted for.0 -
I'm not 100% convinced they would grant us an extension, I could be wrong here.
The assumption (I'm not up to date as I write this) is by attempting to force as per last time to seek an extension, the MP's here could pass whatever laws they like but if all the EU members do not agree then there's no extension. The only answer then I suspect would be revoke.
I'm going to say though they would give us an extension (again) with conditions, it may be something silly like for six or twelve months (!) with some kind of condition on it that we could not leave early, ie: we'd leave/revoke at the end of the extension regardless.
Or they might grant us another 3 months and say something like "that's it, no more. After that time you either revoke or leave, full stop"
hmm0 -
I'm not 100% convinced they would grant us an extension, I could be wrong here.
How convinced are you? 99% 66% 33% 5%?
I think if there was change then they probably would.with some kind of condition on it that we could not leave early
That would be the case, the only time we would have been able to "leave" earlier is if we'd implemented the WA as it was equivalent to membership due. It would be stupid of them to agree something that we could end and go to WTO terms early, because we could do it to prevent a european company from taking on work.
Alot of the EU laws are there to protect against government interference in the single market "I need you to prevent my competitor from entering the country, thanks" (and yes, that happens). GCHQ has been involved in finding out sealed bids for international contracts as well.
That is why the EU created a safe space, we want to be allowed in that safe space but not have to play by the same rules. Well that doesn't happen, no matter how crazy your hair is.0 -
How does it make a difference how convinced he is?
If you say you might be wrong, then it would help to say what you think is right.
You can't predict the future, but it would seem silly to surrender at this point. We should continue fighting to somehow get as good a deal as possible.
Anyway, boris needs to blame dominic cummings. It's his fault entirely
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1174169/brexit-news-no-deal-brexit-tory-rebels-dominic-cummings-boris-johnson
If boris had just agreed to put it to parliament then we wouldn't be in this mess. It wouldn't sit well with the xenophobes though.0 -
The best way to stop it is to allow a general election, win a mandate and cancel Brexit. Problem is Corbyn can't win.0
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Isn’t it a case of either Boris wins and we leave no deal, or JC wins and we stay for now?
What is the other option?
Doesn’t the WA have to be voted on (as per the kinnock amendment that went through without a teller).
Gove said he’d vote for it so I’m wondering if some now think this is a better choice.0
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