Will Brexit happen?

phillw

lvader wrote: »

The idea that keeping freedom of movement upholds the referendum result is fantasy.

It might not uphold what you intended, but it would uphold what was asked.

The referendum isn't upheld unless we all get free Lambourghini's. We all want one, it's the will of the people.

The problem with arguing that freedom of movement is your major problem with the EU, is that it's a pure far right xenophobic issue. "How dare those immigrants come here and contribute to our economy and make us look bad by working harder."

westernpromise wrote: »

What in Article 50 persuades you that a deal is intended to be possible? Do you at least concede in principle that the EU may deliberately write treaties so as to make them constructively impossible to withdraw from, further to its objective of ever closer union?

Because we're not xenophobic and automatically distrustful of the EU? They seem to treat Switzerland and Norway pretty fairly. They treated us extremely fairly.

Why are you so paranoid about an ever closer union?

What makes you think we are the good guys in all of this? Every hate filled speech that our politicians are giving about how bad the EU are is seen by every country in the world. We have proven ourselves to be ungrateful and untrustworthy. That is not going to make our lives any easier when we surrender to the onerous rules of the WTO.

Takedap

phillw wrote: »

Only before the referendum, to sucker in the voters. Afterwards he retconned it that all leave voters want out of the EU because it's full of terrible people. Like Trump did with Mexican immigrants.

The leave voters haven't woken up to how xenophobic their glorious leader is making them appear.

I suppose that at least the Brexit Party have chosen to be honest now.

Their official position is that they only want a No Deal Brexit. Anything less is "surrender".

They have said they will not support the Tories if they are going to attempt to get a last minute deal.

lvader

phillw wrote: »

The problem with arguing that freedom of movement is your major problem with the EU, is that it's a pure far right xenophobic issue. "How dare those immigrants come here and contribute to our economy and make us look bad by working harder."

There is nothing far right about protecting borders and having an immigration policy. It's Labours policy.

phillw

lvader wrote: »

There is nothing far right about protecting borders and having an immigration policy. It's Labours policy.

You have very black and white thinking. People are perfectly able to hold both far left and far right ideals.

left wing and free movement are entirely compatible.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/02/why-labour-dangerously-foolish-turn-against-freedom-movement

lvader

No doubt Labour will change it's stance on immigration depending on how the winds blow. They are quite happy to call their own voters bigots (behind their backs)

Herzlos

Takedap wrote: »

I suppose that at least the Brexit Party have chosen to be honest now.

Have they published any kind of manifesto yet?


Beyond Farage shouting from the background that if we don't leave it's betrayal?

Triple_Zero

phillw wrote: »

Because we're not xenophobic and automatically distrustful of the EU? They seem to treat Switzerland and Norway pretty fairly. They treated us extremely fairly.

Do you not pay attention to current affairs?
The EU are still unfairly bullying Switzerland into submitting to their unwanted rules over many things, from share-trading to free movement.
Or are you really going to try & say that the EU's retaliatory curbing of funding for Swiss research or the EU's ban on trading Swiss stocks isn't really bullying?
Incidentally re: stock trading, the EU unexpectedly shot themselves in the foot as Swiss trading volumes soared and EU trading volumes plummeted.

The EU treat Norway fairly enough because they're scared of losing the huge payments from them, since many Norwegians are unhappy with this arrangement.

westernpromise

Takedap wrote: »

Article 50 was written by the British (Lord Kerr). It was done to facilitate a member state's exit as there was no provision prior to this.

What in Article 50 persuades you that a deal is intended to be possible? Do you at least concede in principle that the EU may deliberately write treaties so as to make them constructively impossible to withdraw from, further to its objective of ever closer union?

westernpromise

phillw wrote: »

Why are you so paranoid about an ever closer union?

Hang on. Ever closer union is tinfoil hat stuff and absolutely not on the agenda, remember?

So what were we going to Remain in again? Ever closer union, or stasis?

Takedap

Herzlos wrote: »

Have they published any kind of manifesto yet?


Beyond Farage shouting from the background that if we don't leave it's betrayal?

I don't think they have published anything yet.


I was going on the word of Brexit Part chairman Richard Tice from last night's Question Time.