Will Brexit happen?

Crashy_Time

Green_Bear wrote: »

I think Brexit has now become an ideology to many people, mixed up with the ideology that democracy must prevail etc. People now identify as Brexit or Remain in a cultural way - almost like supporting Liverpool or Everton.

And supporting a football club makes absolutely no logical or financial sense at all.
It's more about a sense of identity. The madness of crowds.

It's also become a focus for more general discontent.

Blaming the EU is a simplistic target for many people, who just don't want to discuss (or even think about) issues such as fiat currencies, ZIRP, QE, globalisation, demographics, asset prices, etc, etc.

The EU is one of the platforms for manipulation of all the things you mention IMO, breaking it up disrupts that system whether people are consciously voting against it for this reason or not, IMO.

Green_Bear

Crashy_Time wrote: »

The EU is one of the platforms for manipulation of all the things you mention IMO, breaking it up disrupts that system whether people are consciously voting against it for this reason or not, IMO.

Well, all these problems also exist in Japan and the USA etc.
So I'm not sure it has a lot to do with the EU. More a problem for all Western countries at this time.

Green_Bear

Crashy_Time wrote: »

You have to ENACT the first vote before you can have proper democracy, this is the simple problem that Remainers/2nd Ref believers just can`t or won`t accept. They can campaign to re-join later if they want, that is fine, but trying to prevent a democratic vote being enacted because you don`t like the result isn`t fine.

That may be true.
The alternative is not having proper democracy. I think that is what will happen.
Brexit will not happen. It will just be delayed and delayed. The democratic will of the people will be ignored.

Time and demographics will move on. EU citizens and teenagers living in the UK will be promised the vote in the next referendum. People will get bored of Brexit. Big business will fund a new Remain agenda.

phillw

Crashy_Time wrote: »

You have to ENACT the first vote before you can have proper democracy

No you don't. You might want to, but there is no reason why you have to go down a damaging route just because you made that decision but have now changed your mind.

MisterMotivated

I haven't changed my mind...

Thrugelmir

Green_Bear wrote: »

They can't bring themselves to admit that they (ie their whole family) are now poor enough to benefit from a socialist govt.

Perhaps they remember where they came from. A world where people worked hard to improve their lives. Not one driven by a sense of entitlement where the State simply "provided". Provision costs money and resources. People are generally far better off than they've ever been.

phillw

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Perhaps they remember where they came from. A world where people worked hard to improve their lives.

A world where you judge people, even though you have no idea what they've been through.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

I haven't changed my mind...

I'm pretty sure we're not in a dictatorship where you have ultimate power

Herzlos

Crashy_Time wrote: »

You have to ENACT the first vote before you can have proper democracy

Why is enacting a thing before deciding (a) what the thing is and (b) if it's what people really want, necessary for a democracy? Can you cite any example of this happening before?


Plus, you could argue invoking Article 50 was acting on it, as was spending 3.5 years arguing about how to do to.

Crashy_Time

Green_Bear wrote: »

Well, all these problems also exist in Japan and the USA etc.
So I'm not sure it has a lot to do with the EU. More a problem for all Western countries at this time.

Weakening the power of the EU/ECB makes future global QE experiments harder IMO. Japan is already lost down the rabbit hole, and Trump doesn`t seem to mind upsetting the bankers, so I can live with the US and Japan, it is just that the euro experiment has enabled a LOT of financial engineering in recent years.

Crashy_Time

phillw wrote: »

No you don't. You might want to, but there is no reason why you have to go down a damaging route just because you made that decision but have now changed your mind.

So if there was a new ref. and remain won, but half the country disagreed with the outcome we would just have another ref.? I think I get where you are coming from now.