Will Brexit happen?

phillw

Malthusian wrote: »

"Revoke while we sort ourselves out", incidentally, is permanently revoking Brexit. The same people who blocked the WA three times will ensure that.

Only if you believe the leave lies.

A lot of people voted against the WA because they didn't trust the direction the conservatives would go. Which seems to have been spot on.

Leave voters are goal oriented & leaving won't achieve what they want from brexit. So it does seem that we should go back to basics and try to solve that problem, rather than this one.

AndyCF

MobileSaver wrote: »

So ignore the wishes of 16 million people who voted to Remain? That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

Perhaps at the next General Election we should remove the option to vote for Labour as ultimately they lost last time...

As mentioned, twas not my thought.

You could flip that around though and say "ignore the wishes of the millions who voted to leave"

I'm just trying to balance it out.

phillw

AndyCF wrote: »

You could flip that around though and say "ignore the wishes of the millions who voted to leave"

I'm just trying to balance it out.

Which is why you need compromise that gives both sets of people something which achieves their goals, even if it means they don't get what they want.

Nobody has proposed an intersecting venn diagram yet, because the ruling elite are too interested in causing division by pushing for leaving at all costs.

Voting leave was all about feelings, not about facts. If you make the leave voters feel better then you can dress anything up.

Green_Bear

phillw wrote: »

Only if you believe the leave lies.

A lot of people voted against the WA because they didn't trust the direction the conservatives would go. Which seems to have been spot on.

Leave voters are goal oriented & leaving won't achieve what they want from brexit. So it does seem that we should go back to basics and try to solve that problem, rather than this one.

I think Brexit has now become an ideology to many people, mixed up with the ideology that democracy must prevail etc. People now identify as Brexit or Remain in a cultural way - almost like supporting Liverpool or Everton.

And supporting a football club makes absolutely no logical or financial sense at all.
It's more about a sense of identity. The madness of crowds.

It's also become a focus for more general discontent.

Blaming the EU is a simplistic target for many people, who just don't want to discuss (or even think about) issues such as fiat currencies, ZIRP, QE, globalisation, demographics, asset prices, etc, etc.

Green_Bear

phillw wrote: »

Which is why you need compromise that gives both sets of people something which achieves their goals, even if it means they don't get what they want.

Nobody has proposed an intersecting venn diagram yet, because the ruling elite are too interested in causing division by pushing for leaving at all costs.

Voting leave was all about feelings, not about facts. If you make the leave voters feel better then you can dress anything up.

I agree.
But in reality, only boredom with the topic of Brexit will allow this issue to be solved.
It may fizzle out eventually.

But people are strange and illogical. Just try speaking to some hooded teenager in Belfast about why he wants to throw petrol bombs. He won't know any more about 'his' religion than about astrophysics.

phillw

Green_Bear wrote: »

I think Brexit has now become an ideology to many people, mixed up with the ideology that democracy must prevail etc. People now identify as Brexit or Remain in a cultural way - almost like supporting Liverpool or Everton.

I agree. Although remain has mainly been playing catch up due to the terrible way our views have been handled in the last three years.

The money going into marketing brexit is way above what is being used for remain, we're still mostly willing to talk about facts and compromise.

Green_Bear

phillw wrote: »

I agree. Although remain has mainly been playing catch up due to the terrible way our views have been handled in the last three years.

The money going into marketing brexit is way above what is being used for remain, we're still mostly willing to talk about facts and compromise.

Remain also has the disadvantage of being seen to represent the status quo.

I've spoken to many working class pro-Brexit people. Mostly men in their 50s.
What a lot of them really want is a more protectionist or socialist govt. But they'd never describe themselves as socialist. They'll say they hate socialism.
They can't bring themselves to admit that they (ie their whole family) are now poor enough to benefit from a socialist govt. They want to believe that they have benefited from capitalism (many did under Thatcher, RTB etc). They see that the UK, as an industrial centre, has declined and the easiest thing to blame is cheap immigrant labour.

phillw

Green_Bear wrote: »

They see that the UK, as an industrial centre, has declined and the easiest thing to blame is cheap immigrant labour.

I was reading this article earlier, which gave me quite a bit of insight.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/27/victim-blaming-science-behind-psychology-research

I'm wondering what it will be like with five weeks devoid of brexit news. With parliament prorogued and boris keeping his cunning plans secret from everyone except himself, there is little to give us an idea of what/when it is/isn't happening.

Green_Bear

phillw wrote: »

I was reading this article earlier, which gave me quite a bit of insight.


I'm wondering what it will be like with five weeks devoid of brexit news. With parliament prorogued and boris keeping his cunning plans secret from everyone except himself, there is little to give us an idea of what/when it is/isn't happening.

If only.

One of the few journalists to get outside the bubble, was John Harris of The Guardian.
He predicted the Brexit result, whilst most of his Luvvy media colleagues were asleep on the job.

Crashy_Time

MobileSaver wrote: »

So ignore the wishes of 16 million people who voted to Remain? That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

Perhaps at the next General Election we should remove the option to vote for Labour as ultimately they lost last time...

You have to ENACT the first vote before you can have proper democracy, this is the simple problem that Remainers/2nd Ref believers just can`t or won`t accept. They can campaign to re-join later if they want, that is fine, but trying to prevent a democratic vote being enacted because you don`t like the result isn`t fine.