PCN Port of Wells Civil Enforcement Ltd

KeithP

BernieCrumbles wrote: »

...an invested distinct party?

Crikey! We don't see many of those round here.

BernieCrumbles

It’s very odd that the harbour is attempting to absolve itself of all responsibility; I have called daily this week but the Harbour Master continues to evade me, although today I was told that he too is claiming that they have no power over CEL when it comes to cancellation of PCNs. They don’t seem to realise that the more they try to bury their heads, the further the case against them develops and the likelihood of the total closure of the car park increases.

FrankCannon

Would you be able to post your photos of the car park signage on Imgur, Primroseangel ? I would be interested in seeing the signage from the road as I'm fairly sure that it hasn't changed since the Google Streetview pictures were taken in 2017.

The 2018 annual report from the Wells Harbour Commissioners has this to say about the car park ......

There has been much social media debate about the new parking enforcement regulations on the quayside car park. Wells Harbour Commissioners did announce the changes ahead of the installation of the cameras . All the Commissioners expect is for people to purchase a valid ticket at the machines, we are a business just like any other and we rely on the income from the car park to pay for the upkeep of equipment, moorings and plant that maintains our beautiful harbour. At £4.50 a day it is still the cheapest car park in town with the best view! The majority of complaints are from people stating that they have never bothered to buy a ticket when stopping for fish and chips, despite very clear signs requiring them to do so. They are outraged to now find themselves with a parking fine for not having purchased a ticket. We have never operated a “free” car park to purchase fish and chips and it is not free after 6pm. Our charges run from 8am to midnight, however if you arrive after 6pm the charge is reduced to £1, so please remember to purchase a valid ticket at the machine.

It looks as though the Commissioners believe that they have the power to fine people who park in their park or fine people who eat fish and chips. They also state that the signage is clear, but it obviously isn't with so many people being caught out by this scam.

lizk39

Hi
I have recent photos of the signage if it would help you. I don't believe its adequately different for the changes that have been brought in. We have been going there for years and did not know about the changes until it was too late.

FrankCannon

Thanks, Lizk39, that would be helpful. I have images of the signs inside the car park as I have my own PCN from Civil Enforcement. I'm interested in the signs facing the road as the ones from Google Streeview date from 2017, and I'd like to see if they've changed since then. CEL didn't supply any in their evidence pack to Popla, which probably tells its own story.

I've been trying to get the local MP, Norman Lamb, involved in the case. He's had some correspondence with the harbourmaster, Robert Smith, who is very slopey-shouldered and unsympathetic. He evidently doesn't see any problem in the scammers operating on his land and fleecing visitors to North Norfolk. Interestingly, he's told Norman Lamb that the grace period has been increased to 15 minutes recently.

Coupon-mad

Interestingly, he's told Norman Lamb that the grace period has been increased to 15 minutes recently.

Have you got that in writing? Might be useful for others.

lizk39

Yes, I was there on Sunday and the signs have been changed to 15 mins.

FrankCannon

I've posted the letter the harbourmaster wrote to Norman Lamb on imgur.com/a/rvtPtUH. Sorry, but I can't post the link as a new user.


Would there be any point incomplaining to the BPA about this car park ? As the area is covered by byelaws, CEL are obtaining registered keeper details from DVLA through POFA, which is not allowed on land subject to byelaws. Also, the signage and lighting is not compliant with the BPA code of practice. Or would it be a waste of time ?

Umkomaas

https://m.imgur.com/a/rvtPtUH

As the area is covered by byelaws, CEL are obtaining registered keeper details from DVLA through POFA, which is not allowed on land subject to byelaws.

In a Byelaws case, PoFA doesn't restrict CEL from obtaining RK data from the DVLA, they need to make contact with the RK to try to ascertain the identity of the driver. PoFA does not allow them to pursue the RK for the charges in the event of the driver not being identified.

Also, the signage and lighting is not compliant with the BPA code of practice. Or would it be a waste of time ?

Any complaint will tie the PPC up a bit in responding to the BPA. Chances of success are as likely as peeing over the harbour wall and not getting wet with blowback!

Coupon-mad

There is no such thing as 'obtaining registered keeper details from DVLA through POFA'.

The KADOE agreement between PPCs and the DVLA doesn't depend on POFA compliance and doesn't even ask the question.