If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

michaels wrote: »

in an open economy immigrant workers can send a proportion of their incomes 'home'.

Which applies equally to the 5m+ British Expats living and working overseas.

Regardless it takes a particularly myopic and outdated view of international trade to assume remittance flows are anything other than positive for all parties concerned.

BobQ

Rich2808 wrote: »

Perhaps we just need to vote in different politicians and appoint better senior civil servants.

Less than 100 years ago we administered one third of the planet with almost no civil servants. The Sudan was apparently run by a mere 100 civil servants.

Those days are long gone but we used to have competent administrators and politicians dealing with far more complex issues across a third of the globe. Disraeli, Gladstone, Lloyd George and Churchill - surely our 2019 equivalents must be out there somewhere?

Which civil servants are you referring to? The ones that you want to keep our borders safe? The ones who cleared up in Salisbury when Novichuk was released? The ones that try to stop fraud in the tax and benefits system? Those who keep our roads safe?

Its easy to moan about "administrators" but they are people doing jobs that ministers have decided are needed.

I can agree that politicians are not as good as they once but they are only there because people vote for them.

kabayiri

There is no argument : if you want the widest pool of labour then you look globally, not within the EU.

If you want the cheapest labour, you look outside of the EU.

If you want labour with the strongest links to the parts of the world which are set to grow the most in the coming decades, it is outside the EU.

I think we have had the best of the Polish and other EE migrant workers. The wage expectations of these people are rising. We need to shop globally.

phillw

kabayiri wrote: »

We need to shop globally.

I'm with you there. I think we should have free movement of people within all countries. Then everyone can move to where jobs are available.

But we're going in the opposite direction as the government policy is to reduce immigration from inside and outside the EU. We didn't need to change anything BTW as we already had more immigration from outside the EU.

michaels wrote: »

but in an open economy immigrant workers can send a proportion of their incomes 'home'.

Is that a problem? Are you going to complain that British people put money in the bank and don't spend it? Or travel abroad? What right do you have to say what people should do with their money?

Do you also begrudge expat pensioners living abroad?

Lungboy

dunstonh wrote: »

Reunification is not an easy step to take.

It's the right step to take though.

charlotte1994

Autumn86 wrote: »

Like millions of people I voted for brexit because I am fedup with mass immigration from Eastern Europe.
(Less than 45% of the population of London is English)

Everyone in political spheres is getting their knickers in a twist about the idea of a hard border between Britain & Europe being a bad idea somehow,
But I personally don't quite understand how on earth immigration can be controlled unless there is a hard border??

As what would stop Polish/Bulgarian/or any other nationality of European immigrants simply just flying from their own country to Ireland (EU), then travelling up into Northern-ireland (UK), and then once in Northern Ireland just travelling over the sea into other parts of the UK such as England??

Oh dear. There will be little changing in the ways of immigration, though. Yes London is is a cultural melting pot, but look at it's history, it always has been. Still 85% of the country is white British, so I don't think you have anything to worry about.

As for coming through Ireland, I don't think they will. Planes will still be a thing, people can come and fly here, legally. It might end up like America, where most illegal immigrants are people who have over stayed their original visa. People will still come to this country, it will just be more expensive for them. Also I am not sure what will happen to British immigrants who live abroad, if there is a no deal then they may have to be deported and move back here. It's sad that you voted just on the basis of immigration, being out of the EU won't stop immigration :doh: It'll be more expensive, like it'll be more expensive for British people to go abroad. People from non-EU countries have little problem moving here. I hope that you do more research into this.

Takedap

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunstonh
Reunification is not an easy step to take.

Lungboy wrote: »

It's the right step to take though.

Do you think it would be a happy bloodless reunification like the fall of the Berlin Wall?


Do you think there would be no ramifications on the mainland?

michaels

phillw wrote: »

I'm with you there. I think we should have free movement of people within all countries. Then everyone can move to where jobs are available.

But we're going in the opposite direction as the government policy is to reduce immigration from inside and outside the EU. We didn't need to change anything BTW as we already had more immigration from outside the EU.



Is that a problem? Are you going to complain that British people put money in the bank and don't spend it? Or travel abroad? What right do you have to say what people should do with their money?

Do you also begrudge expat pensioners living abroad?

I have 3 kids and earn minimum wage even before using any services we take much more out of the tax system through tax credits than we pay in through all taxes combined. If my kids were abroad all that money would just be leaking straight out of the economy so would not even be recirculated as the bank savings you mention are.

Societies are delicate and can become disfunctional if expected to change toquickly ,similarly infrastructure can only be grown slowly. This means that the UK can best cope with immigration at a measured pace. Given this I would rather we selected the best talent who wanted to come as high up the productivity scale as possible rather than spending our entire capacity to integrate new arrivals on easter European car wash attendants. But I guess the former might impact on the pay rises of the middle classes whereas the later only hurts the lower paid was as a side benefit holding prices down for the middle classes.

Fair enough if you are benefitting but why not be honest about your motivation rather than just chanting racist at those in favour of reduced in one equality through international skills specific migration targets?

Nasqueron

London's population is 63% born in the UK thus British


3.32m (out of 8.88m - last census) were from outside Britain - only 1/3 of these were from the EU so 2/3 would not be stopped if we were not in the EU!


EU migrants contribute more, on average, than they take out. EU migrants do work British people won't do (stuff like hotel cleaning, fruit picking etc). Even if there were no EU migrants (or no migrants in general), even if fruit picking paid the living wage, the great unwashed are not going to give up benefits to do manual labour so the work would either go undone or get automated.

Autumn86

Arklight wrote: »

No, your non-racism just radiates from all this.

I have no personal dislike for any other nationalities,
but I just don't understand why people have this wierd obsession/fetish for moving to live in a different country rather than their own?!?


It's not difficult, you are born in a country, you growup there, you are a full citizen of that country, so just live there.