If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

Autumn86

Like millions of people I voted for brexit because I am fedup with mass immigration from Eastern Europe.
(Less than 45% of the population of London is English)

Everyone in political spheres is getting their knickers in a twist about the idea of a hard border between Britain & Europe being a bad idea somehow,
But I personally don't quite understand how on earth immigration can be controlled unless there is a hard border??

As what would stop Polish/Bulgarian/or any other nationality of European immigrants simply just flying from their own country to Ireland (EU), then travelling up into Northern-ireland (UK), and then once in Northern Ireland just travelling over the sea into other parts of the UK such as England??

PasturesNew

Put a border round England... you can't get from there to here by swimming..... few would bother to buy a boat....

lisyloo

few would bother to buy a boat....

Human traffickers DO buy boats and traffic people even across the very busy waterway of the English Channel.
This is why the Home secretary has declared a major incident.


What makes you think people who are desperate to get into the UK won't try this?

movilogo

You need to put immigration into following 4 buckets

1. EU - legal (currently no control at all)
2. EU - illegal (currently does not exist but will exist post Brexit)
3. Non-EU - legal
4. Non-EU - illegal

Post Brexit, there will be no change to [4] as nothing is really changing.
We take [3] out of discussion because nothing is changing there either.

[1] will come to halt (except for tourism). OP is asking about [2] here.

Firstly someone in bucket [1] can enter legally for tourism and turn into [2] by taking up illegal employment (post Brexit).

That will be prevented when employer will check Right to Work based on permits stamped on their passports.

Ireland border won't make any difference at all because same thing ([1] turning in to [2]) can happen inside England too.

qwert_yuiop

If we get a big enough slump, British people will be sneaking across the Irish border into the EU. Immigrants will be the least of your worries.

PasturesNew

lisyloo wrote: »

Human traffickers DO buy boats and traffic people even across the very busy waterway of the English Channel.
This is why the Home secretary has declared a major incident.


What makes you think people who are desperate to get into the UK won't try this?

I said few, not none.

Fewer than could just walk, or get a lift or bus or train.
Fewer. Not none.

lisyloo

Ok, point taken.
I am inferring from few that you don't think it's a big issue whereas the home secretary seems to think it is.

mayonnaise

lisyloo wrote: »

Ok, point taken.
I am inferring from few that you don't think it's a big issue whereas the home secretary seems to think it is.

Home Secretary made it into a big issue because his party wants to keep the kippers and little englanders on-board.
A couple of dozen migrants in a dinghy is not a big issue.
Non-EU migration was 240k net in 2018. That's 600-700 a day. But I've been told on here they're all brain surgeons and rocket scientists, so it's all good.

michaels

Currently Eire and the UK have a common travel area.

This makes little sense as there are nationalities who can enter Eire without a visa who would need one to enter the UK and others who do need a visa to enter Eire but would need a UK one to enter the UK.

Both these groups can cross freely from Eire to Northern Ireland currently, once they have entered NI they are there 'illegally' / without leave to remain.

Thus your question is redundant, it is already the case that people legally in Eire can cross the non-border into NI even though they would not have the right to be there.

More ever it is highly likely that after Brexit whilst we would want EU nationals to be subject to border checks it is unlikely we would fully record these checks at every point of entry so for an EU national to be in the UK without this having been recorded in some way would be unlikely to be taken as a sign that they had entered illegally anyway, thus no need for them to come in via Eire rather than just on a direct Ryanair flight.

As mentioned above the compliant/hostile environment is designed to ensure that those without leave to remain in the UK are prevented from taking part in society through work, benefits, health care etc.

European countries tend to enforce this via identity cards that often have to be carried widely so we would hardly be being draconian in continuing with this approach.

Thus for movement of people the 'hard border' is not an issue unless the EU prevents Eire from participating in the common travel area and they have to put in a border to prevent UK citizens heading south.

So a useful question from the OP but it is the movement of goods not people that is the issue.

Herzlos

There'd be nothing stopping people, which is what makes it all so absurd.


There are notionally identification checks on the ferry's between NI and UK but there can't be a hard border or the DUP will have a seizure. Even so, there's going to be plenty of money in running small boats across the channel.


Very few people make that journey though, most will travel here legally as a tourist or whatever and then vanish to work in a restaurant kitchen cash-in-hand.

phillw

The major difference post brexit is the little englanders can delight when people from the EU are hunted in dawn raids and have their lives torn apart.

Whether there will be any money to fund those raids is another matter.