If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

Rich2808

Takedap wrote: »

EU laws allow free movement of workers. Not unlimited migration. The UK government could have enforced the rules & removed people who could not find work. It chose not to.

Almost every other EU member state requires you to register with the local council or police if you want to live there more than 3 months. We dont

Every other EU member state (bar possibly Denmark) has a national ID card/public services card which you generally need to access public services easily. Ireland introduced its public services card in 2012 and now 75% of the population has it. In the UK you just turn up to a hospital and give an address and name - and if you are on the computer you get free care as we have free at the point of use healthcare not social insurance schemes or charges as most other EU states have for non urgent care. And if they do decide to bill you you can just leave the country the next day and they won't bother chasing up.

We have a non contributory benefits system - if you have lived here and paid in for 40 years or 4 weeks you are treated the same if your 'needs' are the same. But if you of course have a parent or close relative here you are less likely to be housed by the council than an EU national who doesn't - so you can actually be worse off being a long term resident citizen..

We dole out tax credits to boost low earnings - even boosting the wages of part time workers, who only work 16 hours as if they worked far longer. So employers don't have to pay decent wages - and the taxpayer foots the bill. And we provide housing benefit to EU nationals - neither of these exist in eastern Europe.

Essentially our problem is we are a free for all - no ID, no real controls, no checks and when they do decide to bother enforcing its done in an appalling wage on easy targets (e.g. Windrush pensioners from the Caribbean who had a legal right to permanent residency as Commonwealth nationals when they came here) or this latest nonsese - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/30/man-90-told-to-fly-to-us-to-get-correct-visa-to-remain-in-uk-with-wife - while the actual real law breakers and criminals (e.g. modern slave traders) carry on almost unmolested.

Our systems, controls , ID checks and non contributory welfare systems are a joke! Why live with mum and dad in a flat in Bratislava when you can move to the UK get a part time job, get housing benefit to pay for a flat and get tax credits. I don't blame EU nationals for taking advantage - but our useless politicians.

If the above had been sorted out - we probably would never have voted to leave.

movilogo

If the above had been sorted out - we probably would never have voted to leave.

The problem is, our inept politicans are neither interested in sorting those out nor executing Brexit as per people's wish.

They just want to carry on riding their gravy trains.

Takedap

movilogo wrote: »

The problem is, our inept politicans are neither interested in sorting those out nor executing Brexit as per people's wish.

They just want to carry on riding their gravy trains.

Our inept politicians? The ones you've voted to "take Back Control"???

Rich2808

Perhaps we just need to vote in different politicians and appoint better senior civil servants.

Less than 100 years ago we administered one third of the planet with almost no civil servants. The Sudan was apparently run by a mere 100 civil servants.

Those days are long gone but we used to have competent administrators and politicians dealing with far more complex issues across a third of the globe. Disraeli, Gladstone, Lloyd George and Churchill - surely our 2019 equivalents must be out there somewhere?

kabayiri

Takedap wrote: »

Our inept politicians? The ones you've voted to "take Back Control"???

Brexit has been the biggest test any of them have faced I would wager.

It's only when pressed do you really see their mettle.

Most of the current lot could easily be toast within a few years. Their inability to work as a collective is there to see for all.

gingerdad

the good thing about brexit is that the lovelly tory governement can get rid of lots of employment law including the minimum wage - just look at trump with his tax reductions for the rich and stiffing the poor.

Lets hope all those !!!!wits that voted brexit reap what they've sown.

like the ford plant in bridgend cutting jobs, how long will airbus and nissan last....

mayonnaise

gingerdad wrote: »

Lets hope all those !!!!wits that voted brexit reap what they've sown.

like the ford plant in bridgend cutting jobs, how long will airbus and nissan last....

I expect the average disaffected brexit voter to pick up the slack when Nissan, Airbus and others close shop.

Once freed from the shackles of the EU, they can finally start engaging on the global scene, enriching themselves and this country through economic activities such as Botswanan Pula Clearing and artisan cheese exports to the Commonwealth.

Sunlit uplands ahoy.

Takedap

mayonnaise wrote: »

I expect the average disaffected brexit voter to pick up the slack when Nissan, Airbus and others close shop.

Once freed from the shackles of the EU, they can finally start engaging on the global scene, enriching themselves and this country through economic activities such as Botswanan Pula Clearing and artisan cheese exports to the Commonwealth.

Sunlit uplands ahoy.

Let's all join hands & step over the edge together. If all those pesky Remainers just had enough faith, we'd soar heavenwards & not crash into the abyss.
After all, it can't be MY fault can it?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Rich2808 wrote: »

as EU migration has fallen since June 2016 wages have finally started to move up in real terms after stagnating for a decade and more.

Absolutely, categorically, false.

Real terms wage growth was higher for the two years before the EU referendum, when EU immigration was higher, than it is today or has been since the EU referendum, when EU migration started falling.

Its called market forces - if you have more supply (workers) and the same demand (jobs) the price the suppliers can get (wages/salaries) will fall typically.

Oh dear....

Another one that still believes in the lump of labour fallacy.

The problem with your 'theory' is that the number of jobs is not static. EU migrants create supply but they also consume and create demand.

Or to put it in very simple terms, a society of 100m people requires roughly twice as many doctors, nurses, taxi drivers, shelf stackers, etc, as a society of 50m people.

And the results are quite clearly observable, in that we've had millions of EU migrants but the number of people unemployed is at record lows while the number of people with a job is at record highs.

margaretx9

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Absolutely, categorically, false.

Real terms wage growth was higher for the two years before the EU referendum, when EU immigration was higher, than it is today or has been since the EU referendum, when EU migration started falling.




Oh dear....

Another one that still believes in the lump of labour fallacy.

The problem with your 'theory' is that the number of jobs is not static. EU migrants create supply but they also consume and create demand.

Or to put it in very simple terms, a society of 100m people requires roughly twice as many doctors, nurses, taxi drivers, shelf stackers, etc, as a society of 50m people.

And the results are quite clearly observable, in that we've had millions of EU migrants but the number of people unemployed is at record lows while the number of people with a job is at record highs.

Some Eastern Europeans are net contributors and create jobs and have skills we lack – some aren’t/don’t

Some non EU migrants are net contributors and create jobs and have skills we lack – some aren’t/don’t.

Isn’t the point of Brexit that we can opt to have the net contributors, people who create jobs and have skills we lack – whichever passport they hold – rather than having an open door to poor/unskilled people who may only ever be a drain on the welfare system from 26 nations only.

And of course if the official statistics – which of course never capture things not reported officially (e.g. cash in hand work) matched the day to day reality many people experience we again probably wouldn’t have voted to leave! Because more unskilled labour competing for unskilled jobs means employers can offer lower wages. Because not all EU migrants are brain surgeons, engineers or investment bankers!