If there isn't a hard-border what would stop Eastern European immigrants entering UK via Ireland??

Matt_L

Rich2808 wrote: »

Has it really. Odd then as EU migration has fallen since June 2016 wages have finally started to move up in real terms after stagnating for a decade and more.

Its called market forces - if you have more supply (workers) and the same demand (jobs) the price the suppliers can get (wages/salaries) will fall typically.

Absolutely correct.

Theres lots of evidence to support this, even Corbyn reluctantly admits this to be true..

I personally have two friends, one owns a shutter door business employing 20 people and the other owns one of the countries largest suppliers of refurbished supermarket cages employing more this 60 people. Both have admitted suppressing staff wages due to the endless supply of labour coming from the EU...

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

margaretx9 wrote: »

Isn’t the point of Brexit that we can opt to have the net contributors, people who create jobs and have skills we lack – whichever passport they hold – rather than having an open door to poor/unskilled people who may only ever be a drain on the welfare system from 26 nations only.

Which would be lovely and all, but back in the real world, EU migrants in the numbers we've had and with the mix of skills that have arrived contribute £ billions a year more than they take out.

Whereas non_EU migrants, the ones we can and do 'cherry pick', on average take out more than they pay in.

So in reality we've proven ourselves to be absolutely terrible at 'cherry picking' non-EU migrants via government screening.

But the open market has proven itself to be rather good at attracting just the right numbers of EU migrants in the skill mixes required for the jobs on offer.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Matt_L wrote: »

Absolutely correct.

Theres lots of evidence to support this, even Corbyn reluctantly admits this to be true..

False.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this as it's an outright lie.

It's an unarguable fact that real wages increased more in the 2 years before the EU referendum than they have at any time since.

I personally have two friends,
Both have admitted suppressing staff wages due to the endless supply of labour coming from the EU...

Well send some of it our way then, as up here we have unemployment below 2% and we cannot find staff for love or money, even paying well above minimum wage for unskilled entry level jobs.

Our local McDonalds is now offering £10.50 an hour for burger flippers for heavens sake...

Matt_L

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

False.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this as it's an outright lie.

It's an unarguable fact that real wages increased more in the 2 years before the EU referendum than they have at any time since.

Ive just given two real life examples of where this happens today, so you can claim false all you want but most know it to be true.

As I said, thankfully even Corbyn has acknowledged this to be the case, so at least its now accepted...

margaretx9

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Which would be lovely and all, but back in the real world, EU migrants in the numbers we've had and with the mix of skills that have arrived contribute £ billions a year more than they take out.

Whereas non_EU migrants, the ones we can and do 'cherry pick', on average take out more than they pay in.

So in reality we've proven ourselves to be absolutely terrible at 'cherry picking' non-EU migrants via government screening.

But the open market has proven itself to be rather good at attracting just the right numbers of EU migrants in the skill mixes required for the jobs on offer.

On average’ but not all. So why not get the above average coming in – and not the below average.

Of course the highly skilled EU migrants paying in will still be able to come here anyway. And we of course continue to have one big advantage over most EU member states bar Ireland and Malta (two relatively small member states by comparison) – the English language which is the main second language taught to young people at school.

Just because we haven’t been capable recently of implementing an effective skills based migration scheme recently doesn’t mean we couldn’t ever.

Its just a question of judging people on their qualities, skills and qualifications – not the colour of their passport!

Dean000000

Or skin......

Arklight

Autumn86 wrote: »

I would of loved it if 90% of the foreign nationals who have moved here over the last 5-7years did get deported back to their own country, yes.
Would never ever happen in reality ofcourse, so Brexit won't actually fix the immigration disaster that has plagued our county,
as the millions of eastern European immigrants are already here.

I'm not racist, and do ofcourse know that these people are typically extremely hard workers, willing to work long hours for low pay/no pay-rises, but THAT is the problem!
As they cause wages to be frozen at low levels, since employers have no need to pay higher salaries when they have an endless supply of good cheap labour from Poland.

But so the core reason I voted Brexit is so that employers will eventually be forced to increase pay-rates for workers to be able to attract the staff they need.

No, your non-racism just radiates from all this.

Arklight

Autumn86 wrote: »

Like millions of people I voted for brexit because I am fedup with mass immigration from Eastern Europe.
(Less than 45% of the population of London is English)

Everyone in political spheres is getting their knickers in a twist about the idea of a hard border between Britain & Europe being a bad idea somehow,
But I personally don't quite understand how on earth immigration can be controlled unless there is a hard border??

As what would stop Polish/Bulgarian/or any other nationality of European immigrants simply just flying from their own country to Ireland (EU), then travelling up into Northern-ireland (UK), and then once in Northern Ireland just travelling over the sea into other parts of the UK such as England??

Like millions of people, I'm utterly fed up with Leave voters with no understanding of statistics.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/10/majority-of-britain-eastern-european-residents-are-in-work

80% of Britain's 1.4 million Eastern Europeans are net contributors.

80% of Leave's godawful parochial constituencies have virtually no immigrants in them.

Now what does that tell you?

qwert_yuiop

Takedap wrote: »

I think that there's a delicious irony in the fact that while EU migration is falling, non-EU migration is rising.
Less Polish, More Pakistanis.
Less Bulgarians, More Bangladeshis
Less Italians, More Indians.


And the prospect of Sajid Javid becoming our first Muslim Prime Minister.


Tommy must be so proud....

Where are you from?

michaels

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Absolutely, categorically, false.

Real terms wage growth was higher for the two years before the EU referendum, when EU immigration was higher, than it is today or has been since the EU referendum, when EU migration started falling.




Oh dear....

Another one that still believes in the lump of labour fallacy.

The problem with your 'theory' is that the number of jobs is not static. EU migrants create supply but they also consume and create demand.

Or to put it in very simple terms, a society of 100m people requires roughly twice as many doctors, nurses, taxi drivers, shelf stackers, etc, as a society of 50m people.

And the results are quite clearly observable, in that we've had millions of EU migrants but the number of people unemployed is at record lows while the number of people with a job is at record highs.

Of course in a closed economy all earnings are saved or spent, but in an open economy immigrant workers can send a proportion of their incomes 'home'.