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I wouldnt phrase it like that. Shares dont move rationally thats where it becomes possible to profit, sometimes easily though its always at risk
I can buy the dividend is an obvious mistake so I dont disagree but to say it can never work, there I do. People can be so wrong that they even allow a 'free dividend'
I know of course its not really free any more then a red car is really faster, perceptions can become so off kilter about a company, a sector, market, commodity, country or whatever dynamic; that incorrect pricing can mean the ex div movements is of no consequence, markets have ignored this.if there were money to be made, we would all be doing it!
They chase failing badly adjusted and over priced stocks, house, bonds, whatever fad trends that year where the company cant even pay the dividend.
There are certainly times the opposite of free was there, a company that fails to make enough to pay out when people expected it to. That price can half even when it was just a 5% div
This whole dynamic goes to the top. Alan Greenspan and 'market theory' Suffice to say, market is wrong often especially when government is 50% of GDP they hang off politics not business.
Bailouts destroy business, its all amazingly ironic hence a div can be free for sure from what Ive seen which is the opposite of how it should be in theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bX_vhojH8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=eEKhxdeadk00 -
The fact is, the company is now worth that much less (10p a share) to any potential new buyer, which is why the 'buy just before xd' strategy can never work. Don't worry, lots of people have thought of this before and, if there were money to be made, we would all be doing it!
For example people generally have a preference for capital gains rather than income because the tax on gains are lower and sometimes zero if you are under the annual exemption. So I and others might well sell a share right before it paid out if I expected the price to fall by the dividend amount. Maximising gains and minimising income. The selling pressure in the market might be expected to be a bit greater leading up to ex-div date versus immediately afterwards, and that could have some sort of effect on prices. But as mentioned by others there are all sorts of things affecting prices all the time and I don't have any specific evidence to back up my suggestion.
Going back to my point on the two equal cashflows having unequal values. If I buy £100k of shares at 100p, receive a dividend of 10p per share (£10k) and then sell the shares at 90p for £90k because the company has less cash. I am cash neutral except for a tenner of broker costs and £500 of stamp duty if it's a UK company (perhaps nil if it's incorporated overseas)
I pay tax on the £10k income which might not be very much, there's nil to pay if I am not a high rate taxpayer. I tell HMRC I made a capital loss of £10k which is carried forward to future tax years.
Two years later I sell an investment property or some shares making capital gains of £50k. I am a high rate taxpayer that year and the gains are over my annual exemption so the government wants its cut. The rate on gains is fortunately lower than the rate on income but it's quite a chunk to pay. However, I have 10k of brought forward losses which are allowed to be offset against the gain. The savings of CGT for me in that year are higher than the income tax paid a couple of years earlier. Voila.0 -
sad_gills_fan wrote: »Firstly, apologies for not being clear about any part of this question, I'm struggling to understand it myself!
So, I pay in to a company share scheme. It matures in 2014, when I will have paid in £14k. I know that I can then buy shares at an option of 61p which would give me 23090 shares.
My question is .. how do I get the maximum cash in the shortest period of time please?
1. Could I put all 23090 shares in a Shares ISA on the day of maturity, then remove them the following week and sell them at that days rates? Would it be tax free then as they'd been in an ISA?
2. If I have to do it bit by bit because of Capital Gains Tax, let's say they are worth £50k ... can I only take out my personal allowance of £10k, or can I also have the £14k I put in, thus giving me a first payment of £24k? I presume I could then take out another personal allowance of £10k the following April etc.
3. As I'm not married (engaged and co-habiting for 11 yrs), can I gift any shares to my partner, allowing us to get 2 lots of personal allowance?
Thank you in advance for any advice you can give ... obviously I do not want to break any laws, but, if there are legal loopholes that I could take advantage of, that's fine!:D
I wasn't sure where to ask these questions as it's share dealing, but also tax and savings!
Look forward to hearing your advice!
Sad_Gills_Fan:beer:0 -
bowlhead99 wrote: »I pay tax on the £10k income which might not be very much, there's nil to pay if I am not a high rate taxpayer. I tell HMRC I made a capital loss of £10k which is carried forward to future tax years.
But, for the purposes of the original question, which was its use as a trading strategy, it's never going to be a winner over the long haul.0 -
Trading shares is not supposed to be easy, blasphemy. If you honestly know they are going down then selling makes sense.so this is easily done
Monday February 11 INTERIMS Avation INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Harmonised Competitiveness Indicators (EU) (09:00) SPECIAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Rexam EGMS Ruukki Group (DI) AGMS African Potash Ltd, GCP Infrastructure Investments Ltd, RWS Holdings FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Dunedin Smaller Companies Inv Trust, ITE Group, Paragon Group Of Companies Tuesday February 12 INTERIMS Albemarle & Bond Holdings, Avanti Communications Group, Sabien Technology Group, Sinclair Is Pharma, Dunelm, Kennedy Ventures INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Treasury Budget Statement (US) (19:00) Atlanta Fed President Dennis Lockhart speaks in Madrid (18:30) ECB President Mario Draghi speaks in Madrid (13:30) Q4 Norsk Hydro ASA GMS Ferrex FINALS Barclays, Dragon Oil, Heavitree Brewery, Lo-Q, Norsk Hydro ASA, Telekomunikacja Polska S.A GDR (Reg S) IMSS United Drug, Volex AGMS CareTech Holding, Pressure Technologies UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Consumer Price Index (09:30) Producer Price Index (09:30) Retail Price Index (09:30) RICS House price balance (00:01) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Unicorn AIM VCT Wednesday February 13 INTERIMS Town Centre Securities INTERIM EX-DIVIDEND DATE Murgitroyd Group, Stavert Zigomala QUARTERLY EX-DIVIDEND DATE Boeing Co, BP, Lilly (Eli) & Co, MedicX Fund Ltd., Picton Property Income Ltd, Royal Dutch Shell 'A', Royal Dutch Shell 'B' INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Business Inventories (US) (13:30) Import and Export Price Indexes (US) (13:30) Manufacturing Inventories (US) (15:00) Retail Sales (US) (13:45) Retail Sales Inventories (US) (15:15) FINALS Anglo Pacific Group, Sampo OYJ, Telecity Group, Tullow Oil SPECIAL EX-DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Photo-Me International AGMS F&C Capital & Income Inv Trust, Impax Asset Management Group, Income & Growth VCT TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS Alpha Real Trust Ltd. UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS BoE Inflation Report (09:30) FINAL EX-DIVIDEND DATE Avon Rubber, Blackrock Income And Growth Investment Trust, Pressure Technologies, Sage Group, Sinclair (William) Holdings Thursday February 14 INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS ECB Report (EU) (09:00) Gross Domestic Product (GER) (07:00) FINALS Amec, Coca-Cola HBC S.A., Electric Word, Hrvatske Telekom D.D GDR (Reg S), Morgan Crucible Co, Rio Tinto, Rolls-Royce Holdings, Shire Plc ANNUAL REPORT Henderson Diversified Income Ltd. IMSS Halma, Helical Bar, Norcros AGMS Bajaj Hindusthan Ltd. GDR (Reg S), Noble Investments (UK) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE BlackRock New Energy Inv Trust, Euromoney Institutional Investor Friday February 15 INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Anite, Consort Medical, QinetiQ Group, Volex QUARTERLY PAYMENT DATE Abbott Laboratories, British Land Co, Marsh & Mclennan Cos Inc. INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Capacity Utilisation (US) (16:15) Industrial Production (US) (16:15) U. of Michigan Confidence (US) (15:00) Wholesale Price Index (GER) (07:00) GMS Consort Medical FINALS Anglo American SPECIAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Carpathian EGMS Assura Group Ltd. UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Claimant Count Rate (09:30) Internet Retail Sales (09:30) Retail Sales (09:30) Unemployment Rate (09:30) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE CareTech Holding, Downing Income Vct, Downing Income Vct 4, Shaftesbury
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sabretoothtigger wrote: »Trading shares is not supposed to be easy, blasphemy. If you honestly know they are going down then selling makes sense.
This is akin to cursing yourself though
Yes, you are right, should never say things like that Over the last few years they have fluctuated between £14 and £18 a share over the year (all of which are more than I paid for them), I could see them taking a dive as soon as I set something up tho. The thing is I have about £40k worth at current market value and wanted to get them into an ISA so if I decided to sell the lot I could without Capital Gains issues, the dividend generally isn't bad which is why I've kept them.0 -
Monday February 18 INTERIMS Sareum Holdings QUARTERLY EX-DIVIDEND DATE Schlumberger Ltd. INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Balance of Payments (EU) (09:00) Current Account (EU) (09:00) FINALS All Leisure Group, BATM Advanced Communications Ltd. EGMS Plaza Centers NV, Zhejiang Southeast Electric Power Co Ltd. GDR (Reg S) AGMS Renovo Group FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Imperial Tobacco Group Tuesday February 19 INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS New Car Registrations (EU) (10:00) ZEW Survey (EU) (10:00) ZEW Survey (GER) (10:00) Q4 Bank of Georgia Holdings GMS Fortune Oil, Weatherly International FINALS AZ Electronic Materials SA (DI), Bank of Georgia Holdings, Brammer, Drax Group EGMS Phoenix Group Holdings (DI) AGMS Foresight 2 VCT, Foresight 2 VCT 'C' Shares, Foresight 2 VCT Infrastructure Shares, Foresight 2 VCT Planned Exit Shares, Sunrise Resources , Tertiary Minerals, Titon Holdings Wednesday February 20 INTERIMS A&J Mucklow Group, BHP Billiton, Centaur Media, Galliford Try, Netcall INTERIM EX-DIVIDEND DATE Mid Wynd International Inv Trust, Mountview Estate, PZ Cussons, Rank Group QUARTERLY EX-DIVIDEND DATE Barclays, Blackrock North American Income Trust , Carnival, GlaxoSmithKline, M Winkworth INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Building Permits (US) (13:30) Consumer Confidence Indicator (EU) (10:00) Consumer Price Index (GER) (07:00) FOMC Interest Rate Minutes (US) (19:00) Housing Starts (US) (13:30) MBA Mortgage Applications (US) (12:00) Producer Price Index (GER) (07:00) Producer Price Index (US) (13:30) FINALS Pinnacle Technology Group, Rathbone Brothers, Rexam, RSA Insurance Group, Spectris, STV Group, Travis Perkins AGMS MedicX Fund Ltd. UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS BoE Interest Rate Minutes (09:30) Claimant Count Rate (09:30) Unemployment Rate (09:30) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Impax Asset Management Group FINAL EX-DIVIDEND DATE Brunner Inv Trust, Catlin Group Ltd., Henderson Opportunities Trust, Independent Inv Trust, Jersey Electricity 'A' Shares, Reckitt Benckiser Group, Throgmorton Trust Thursday February 21 INTERIMS Ashmore Group, Go-Ahead Group INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Consumer Price Index (US) (13:30) Crude Oil Inventories (US) (15:30) Existing Home Sales (US) (15:00) Leading Indicators (US) (15:00) Philadelphia Fed Index (US) (15:00) Q4 CSR, Lancashire Holdings GMS Bumi, Jelf Group FINALS BAE Systems, CSR, Filtrona PLC, Informa, Ladbrokes, Lancashire Holdings, New World Resources A Shares, Premier Foods, RM ANNUAL REPORT Independent Inv Trust IMSS Sports Direct International SPECIAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Dewhurst, Dewhurst (Non-Voting) AGMS easyJet, Jelf Group, Optos TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS Kingfisher UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS CBI Industrial Trends Surveys (11:00) Public Sector Finances (09:30) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Dewhurst, Dewhurst (Non-Voting) Friday February 22 INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE ACM Shipping Group, Fletcher King, NCC Group, Tricorn Group INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS IFO Business Climate (GER) (09:00) IFO Current Assessment (GER) (09:00) IFO Expectations (GER) (09:00) Q4 Millennium & Copthorne Hotels GMS Beale FINALS Millennium & Copthorne Hotels EGMS Cambium Global Timberland Ltd. AGMS Armour Group, Brewin Dolphin Holdings, Urals Energy Public Co Ltd. (DI) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Avation, RWS Holdings, Titon Holdings, Victrex
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Hi
I'm looking to sell 2 groups of shares and I'm looking for the cheapest way to do this. I've looked into Brokerline with the Natwest, and while it's relatively cheap at £15 per trade, the sting is closing the account can run to £90.
Any tips on the cheapest way to execute 2 trades and not get roped into account admin fees?
Thanks
Lynne0 -
How do you know you have shares to sell, you may be on the leash already XO is cheaper
Monday February 25 INTERIMS Avingtrans, Petra Diamonds Ltd.(DI), Thorntons INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Puma High Income VCT , Puma Vct 8, Puma Vct VII INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Italian general and regional elections, voting ends at 14:00 GMT HSBC China manufacturing PMI (01:45) FINALS Bovis Homes Group, Dialight, Domino's Pizza Group, Hiscox Ltd., Microgen, Pearson, Persimmon, Senior, Staffline Group, XP Power Ltd. (DI) EGMS Signet Global Fixed Income Strategies Ltd. AGMS ASOS, Treatt, Vatukoula Gold Mines TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS Associated British Foods UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS BBA Mortgage Lending Figures (09:30) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Compass Group, United Drug Tuesday February 26 INTERIMS Asian Citrus Holding, Craneware, Dechra Pharmaceuticals, DotDigital Group, Redrow, Robert Walters, Wilmington Group INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE IG Group Holdings QUARTERLY EX-DIVIDEND DATE Canadian General Investments Ltd. INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS US Federal Reserve President Ben Bernanke speaks before US Senate (15:00) Consumer Confidence (US) (15:00) House Price Index (US) (15:00) New Homes Sales (US) (15:00) GMS Sirius Petroleum FINALS CRH, Devro, GKN, Goals Soccer Centres, Provident Financial SPECIAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Rensburg AIM VCT AGMS Andor Technology, Bankers Inv Trust, The Commercial Bank of Qatar (Q.S.C) GDR (Reg S), XCAP Securities TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS Mail.ru Group Ltd GDR (Reg S), Whitbread UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS CBI Distributive Trends Surveys (11:00) Speech from BoE´s Paul Fisher at University of Bristol Alumni, London (18:30). Speech from Mervyn King to Japanese Bankers Association, Tokyo (06:00 GMT). No text to be released. Wednesday February 27 INTERIMS Barratt Developments, Clinigen Group INTERIM EX-DIVIDEND DATE Carclo, Casdon plc, Diageo, Downing Absolute Income VCT 2, Downing Distribution VCT 1, Downing Income VCT 3, Downing Income VCT 3 E Shs, Heath (Samuel) & Sons, Standard Life Equity Income Trust QUARTERLY PAYMENT DATE Merchants Trust QUARTERLY EX-DIVIDEND DATE Canaccord Financial Inc., Energy XXI (Bermuda) (Di) INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Business Climate Indicator (EU) (10:00) Crude Oil Inventories (US) (15:30) Durable Goods Orders (US) (13:30) Economic Sentiment Indicator (EU) (10:00) GFK Consumer Confidence (GER) (07:00) M3 Money Supply (EU) (09:00) MBA Mortgage Applications (US) (12:00) Pending Homes Sales (US) (15:00) Retail Sales (GER) (07:00) GMS Surface Transforms FINALS Carillion, Centrica, Henderson Group, Interserve, Intu Properties, ITV, Molins, New Britain Palm Oil Ltd. (DI), Oxford Biomedica, Petrofac Ltd., Promethean World, SEGRO, Synectics, Weir Group SPECIAL EX-DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Beazley EGMS Open Joint Stock Company Nomos Bank GDR (REG S) AGMS Gooch & Housego, Image Scan Holdings, LXB Retail Properties, Manroy UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS GDP (quarterly national accounts) (09:30) Index of Services (09:30) Charlie Bean´s IEA State of the Economy Conference 2013, London (09:20). FINAL EX-DIVIDEND DATE Baronsmead VCT 3, Baronsmead VCT 5, easyJet, Hazel Renewable Energy VCT 1, Hazel Renewable Energy VCT 2, LPA Group, Rights & Issues Inv Trust Capital Shares, Rights & Issues Inv Trust Income Shares, Silverdell, Zytronic Thursday February 28 INTERIMS Gleeson (M J) Group, Hargreaves Services, Hays, Ricardo INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Ingenious Entertainment VCT 1, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 1 'C' Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 1 'D' Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 1 E Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 1 F Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 2, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 2 'C' Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 2 'D' Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 2 E Shares, Ingenious Entertainment VCT 2 F Shares, NB Private Equity Partners Ltd. QUARTERLY PAYMENT DATE City of London Inv Trust, Picton Property Income Ltd INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Balance of Payments (GER) (07:00) Bloomberg Consumer Confidence (US) (13:45) Chicago PMI (US) (13:45) Consumer Price Index (GER) (07:00) Consumer Price Index (EU) (10:00) Continuing Claims (US) (13:30) GDP (Preliminary) (US) (13:30) Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices (EU) (10:00) Initial Jobless Claims (US) (13:30) International Reserves (EU) (11:00) PMI Retail (EU) (09:00) PMI Retail (GER) (08:55) Unemployment Rate (GER) (08:55) Q4 Bridge Energy Asa, Frontline Ltd., Hellenic Telecom Industries SA ADS, OJSC Megafon GDR (Reg S), Wentworth Resources Ltd (CDI) GMS GMA Resources FINALS Bridge Energy Asa, British American Tobacco, Capita, Capital & Counties Properties , Derwent London, Frontline Ltd., Hellenic Telecom Industries SA ADS, Howden Joinery Group, International Consolidated Airlines Group SA (CDI), LSL Property Services, OJSC Megafon GDR (Reg S), Primary Health Properties, Reed Elsevier, Royal Bank of Scotland Group, RPS Group, Spirent Communications, St James's Place, Wentworth Resources Ltd (CDI), Xchanging ANNUAL REPORT Bank Millennium SA, Coca-Cola HBC S.A. EGMS Better Capital Pcc Ltd (2009) AGMS 2 ergo Group, Alternative Investment Strategies Ltd. Sterling Hedged Shares, Datong, Driver Group, IDOX, Sinclair (William) Holdings, Terrace Hill Group, Zytronic TRADING ANNOUNCEMENTS Kazakhmys, Safestore Holdings UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS GFK Consumer Confidence (00:01) PMI Retail (09:30) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Andor Technology Friday March 01 INTERIM DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Latchways, Mattioli Woods QUARTERLY PAYMENT DATE JPMorgan Claverhouse Inv Trust INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Construction Spending (US) (15:00) ISM Manufacturing (US) (15:00) Non-Farm Payrolls (US) (13:30) Personal Consumption Expenditures (US) (13:30) Personal Income (US) (13:30) Personal Spending (US) (13:30) PMI Manufacturing (EU) (09:00) PMI Manufacturing (GER) (08:55) U. of Michigan Confidence (US) (15:00) Unemployment Rate (EU) (10:00) Q2 London Mining GMS Baillie Gifford Shin Nippon, Victoria Oil & Gas FINALS BBA Aviation, Berendsen, Fiberweb, Hammerson, Laird, Lloyds Banking Group, Old Mutual, Rentokil Initial, Rightmove, Taylor Wimpey, William Hill, WPP EGMS Investors In Global Real Estate Ltd AGMS CQS Diversified Fund Ltd Ord NPV £, Sage Group UK ECONOMIC ANNOUNCEMENTS Consumer Credit (09:30) M4 Money Supply (09:30) M4 Sterling Lending (09:30) Mortgage Approvals (09:30) PMI Manufacturing (09:30) FINAL DIVIDEND PAYMENT DATE Gooch & Housego, Noble Investments (UK)
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