Squeaky! (merged with Q and A)

Magentasue

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavlovs_dog

h) the reason people are calling for a subforum is because they want somewhere to go and do the 'my cat's just brought me home a dead bird about the size of a pigeon...how long do you think it will take in the slow cooker?

apprentice_tycoon wrote:

It's been a funny old day with things said that perhaps shouldn't have been said....but I will treasure Pavlovs idea of what to put in a slow cooker........

Well, waste not, want not ... how old style is that

Nelski

margaret wrote:

I want to say two things!
Firstly, I've thanked someone TWICE and I didn't want to say thanks at all. I meant to click on 'quote.' Could a bg delete my thanks please?
Secondly, I really don't know what this is all about and I've been posting for quite a while here. I haven't noticed any unpleasantness. However, I know that someone has had a go at Squeaky and that's a shame since he has done so much to keep this forum going.
Couldn't everyone be friends again?
Margaret

hey everyone you wanna come and join us in the arms - people used to say they felt unwelcome and intimidated in there - all I can say is that old style has done that same thing dramatically well today - glad Im not a newbie today.

btw - squeaky Y0U ROCK!!!

anyone wanna wine?

Queenie

pavlovs_dog wrote:

im sorry if i seem harsh, but quite frankly i am well and truly fed up with the way this board has seen to be headed these last few weeks, the locking of threads, heavy policing, deleting or editing threads without informing the OP etc etc etc, and if we cant sit down and sort it out like the adults we are supposed to be then we wont have much of a forum left at all, chat or otherwise

:T There are several who think the same as yourself.

cristin wrote:

Edit: this was my original post, nothing to do with Curry_Queen at all. so I apologise again.

I have cut down my response considerably, as I don’t want to bore people. But, I have to say I am a very confused. On one hand Queenie, you seem to be saying the coffee shop in old style should never have been started because it wasn’t discussed properly at the beginning

I am saying:
A thread was introduced for a discussion to take place to gather and share opinions on whether or not there was a need for a chattier arena within Old Style.
Before that discussion had fully got off the ground (within an hour and a half actually), a decision was made to open "Ye Olde Coffee Shoppe" (I did link to the original thread where the discussion could of taken place fully in the reply you are quoting me from). Had a full discussion been allowed to continue *before* any decisions were made ....
a) there would have been a broader view of Old Style members needs
b) clarity on what was needed generally
c) how it was to be done - IF it was to be done.
d) where, if anywhere, that place should be

Instead, Ye Olde Coffee Shoppe was born without considering the full potential, pitfalls, advantages and/or disadvantages!

and on the other, that we must keep it at all costs because so many people out there need a good chat during the day (I wholeheartedly agree!)

It is my experience of message boards that one long, long, long ongoing thread isn't the way to do it!
However, I still feel (and I base my opinion over many months of being on MSE) that there does indeed seem to be a growing need, evolving from the increase in membership and other factors, for a place where "chattier" posts can be made. (Again, I think I may have given a fuller explaination in the original discussion thread so I won't repeat them again here!)

Originally Posted by Queenie The Arms has a very unique and special "feel" and flavour to it. Very few "sensible" conversations take place in there - it's light hearted, fun, flippant and cheeky! The Arms has 3 sub-forums: Discussion, Vent and Funny Money.
Again I am sorry but am confused. What is this special “feel” and flavour you keep going on about? Lots of the posts in the Old style coffee shop and Money Arms Coffee corner are very similar (e.g. you seem to discuss eating cakes a lot !!!!!)


Posts in "The Arms" are unique to the whole MSE site! In the main, they are jokey, about nothing inparticular, have no particular relevance to money saving; full of innuendo .... in essence it really is like being in a pub and having a jolly up with other grownups. It isn't (IMHO) a place to have a "chat" in the general meaning of the word ... it's more "banter" rather than "Chat". Discussion could be read as "Debate" and "Vent" is somewhere to let off steam about ... whatever!
The Coffee Corner in The Arms only arose this morning as a direct result of this thread!!

If you feel that strongly, why can’t we start a 4th forum in Money Saving Arms just for old stylers, so that we can recreate that “special old style feel”.

That's an interesting suggestion! :wall: Perhaps had we been permitted to have the discussion on the thread posted on 16th May (which I linked to in my original reply to your comments) then perhaps, just maybe, that may have occurred! However, due to that discussion and any decision that may include members suggestions, being taken *away* from the very members the boards are supposed to be supporting and encouraging, views such as yours, and many others, were not able to be expressed or considered!!


Originally Posted by Queenie

With the rise in members - many of whom are at home, often without adult company for much of the time - there would appear to be a need for a place to "drop in" and just have a chat about how your day is going ... the fact remains there does appear to be a demand for it!

Now I am not confused because this is precisely my point. I would think it is more logical to have all the chat areas in the same place, and by chat I mean talking about anything and everything – so that I can really have a "chin wag" and discuss what I want, without having to jump from forum to forum finding where the conversation is! I can ask for a hug, tea and old style sympathy in the right chat area because I only have to go to one area.
How on earth is a newbie supposed to know there is a chat area/coffee shop in Old style, unless they come across it by accident? Also, if they find it, they would then probably be too intimidated to join in, as it seems to be restricted to just a few users.

PRECISELY!!!!!!!! :T

I have been a member of the MSE forum for a while, but have never had the courage to post in the old style coffee shop. I have noticed that some people don’t get a very nice welcome or even a response – how welcoming and encouraging.

I KNOW!!!!! :wall: Which is why I am not an advocate of Ye Olde Coffee Shoppe as it stands - it was ill thought out. Or rather, wasn't thought out at all.

But I suppose it really depends on who you are and it is different for certain people. Queenie you have posted so many messages in there, some funny, some flippant, some very useful, but as a newbie how will I ever find out about them and be encouraged to have that chat that I so desperately need, if I can't find it, and am too intimidated to join in.

I completely, utterly, wholeheartedly AGREE!!!!! Please Cristin .. do me the courtesy of reading my posts regarding the issues pertaining to "chatty" posts/suggestions regarding this issue.

I have endeavoured to support, encourage, welcome, amuse, make suggestions, answer queries and generally be pleasant even to those who have been obnoxious to me! I think you have generally misunderstood where I am coming from completely!! I have had no problem welcoming newbies and endeavouring to make them feel welcome! It was a BG who deleted all the welcome threads I made in the "Getting to know you thread"!! I have endeavoured to make suggestions, or at least open discussion on how best to accommodate the increase in Old Style attention/interest ... a BG put up Ye Olde Coffee Shoppe - not me! ... thus ensuring there could be no discussion/suggestions/opinions on the matter!

Cristin (a sahm!)
PS I will be deleting this post myself in a little while

Why?

Pat__3

Murtle wrote:

I don't think this really needs to turn into a them and us situation. No one has asked Squeaky to leave, in fact many people asked him to reconsider, but we are all grown ups and can make up our own minds.

I don't like the way this is turning, it started off as a please can we and has turned into he said she said he did she did....

Not everyone GET OUT OF THE SAND PIT AND GO BACK TO POSTING USEFUL THREADS. (ps this is said tongue in check, I don't really mind where you play!!!!)

love to you all

x x x

I think everyone seems to reading into this a bit too deep.

I never indicated that this was a them and us situation, I think everyone needs to take a step back or even a chill pill and think about that we are all friends here and that no one wants to hurt anyones feelings or anything remotely like that.
We help each other so much on this board and other boards and a lot of us would be lost without the site. ( I know that sounds sad)

We need to think about the people we chat with on here, and we get to know some people pretty well by the way they post most of the time so we should know that they are very humorous and helpful people generally, so perhaps if they type something that does'nt sound right it may not be them but the way we are reading it because of the way we feel that day.

I not the best at explaining myself sometimes, but I hope you know what I am getting at in the nicest possible way.

pavlovs_dog

margaret wrote:

I want to say two things!
Firstly, I've thanked someone TWICE and I didn't want to say thanks at all. I meant to click on 'quote.' Could a bg delete my thanks please?

i'll try not to take it personally...

margaret wrote:

However, I know that someone has had a go at Squeaky and that's a shame since he has done so much to keep this forum going.
Margaret

having read back through the entire thread in as neutral a light as i can muster, i have to disagree with you here. i dont think anyone has had a go at squeaky.

we recognise that he is new to this board guide business, and as such, is still finding his feet. in his short time as board guide, he has done a truly amazing job on the index stickies, and i cant even begin to imagine the amount of time, work and effort he has put into it all. and we are truly thankful, because it has made that aspect of the old style forum infinately easier to use.

from what i can tell, what HAS happened is that people have offered what is meant to be constructive criticism, that is to say that in some aspects of his job he is perhaps being a tad too enthusiastic and overzealous, and could he please tone it down, something which he has taken to heart.

at no point was this started out as a witch hunt, and i doubt very much that anyone intended to hurt anyone else's feelings, let alone to the point that squeaky felt the need to give up his job, and if i've caused offence to squeaky or anyone else, then i apologise.

However, i do stand by my views.

i think the board as a whole (not just this particular forum, although it is one of the biggest culprits) has become too draconian and edited for my liking recently. BG's are too keen to nip things in the bud before they even get off the ground, rather than seeing which direction things take. in my experience things that look like they will need kicking into touch often revert to an even keel if left to their own devices.

i dont think the coffee shop, in its current format, is sustainable. i love web forums, but never follow that thread properly because its just not feasible, even for someone who is online at least once a day like i am. i believe that, for all the good will in the world, it was rushed through, without giving old stylers the opportunity to discuss their wants and needs within the confines of what is currently possible (ie, not being able to conjure up a subforum at the drop of a hat). consequently, we get edited posts, deleted posts, and rebukes, because people do not understand what the coffee shop is supposed to be about. on top of which, people continue to ignore the warnings, rebukes etc, knowing that the worst that will happen is that their post will be deleted, because it is they only way the currently have of informal old style interaction.

furthermore, so long as this issue goes unresolved, the problem will fester, and if the atmosphere around this thread has been anything to go by, we will get people taking offence when none was intended, defending their honour hence causing more upset etc and the whole thing will just get nasty.

none of us want that.

what we want is a place to mingle amongst fellow old stylers, have a natter, let off steam, and have a bit of a giggle without being told off for going off topic or having posts deleted



personally, i dont think its a case of wanting a subforum, its a case of needing one to solve the rift that is developing. (reading through the thread, its clear who agrees with who (the whos thanked who bit tells its own story...well, until people start clicking thanks instead of quote ), and whilst it isnt a case of taking sides, it IS clear that there are very different expectations, and this needs to be addressed and resolved).

one way to resolve a clash with the moneysavers arms, is to have it as a subforum that is accessible from both there and here in old style. im guessing that any random thread that could just have easily have belonged in the arms would therefore be accessible to the drunkards, whilst anything involving vinegar, slow cookers etc that they dont understand they will choose not to participate in - just as we all choose whether we will participate in a thread according to our own personal interests and experiences.

personally, i'd be very interested to know what :money: thinks of it all, if he's skulking in the vacinity .

as for a resolution, perhaps those of us in favour of a subforum should take a petition to the top, and take it from there?

squeaky

Hi, it's all getting a bit heavy here. I accept that while I've done a pretty fair job of indexing etc, I've also done a pretty lousy one as a BG. Since I never actually signed on to be a BG in the first place I have no concerns about stepping down.

As for removing thanks - Board Guides cannot do that. Even deletion of a post does not remove the thanks that it may have gained.

The Coffee Shop was an attempt to divert a possible forum split. Some members clearly don't like it and would like to split the forum anyway, but Board Guides have neither the powers nor the tools to do this. The best place, I think, for such a request would be This Site Q&A's

Edit: Not that this will solve the problem - merely change it.

After all, who will decide what's an informative post and a chatty one? How many chatty comments in an informative post turn it into a chatty one? Any? One? Ten? If a post starts off as chatty and then becomes quite informative... when does it become informative enough to move? Who is going to have to decide?

The poor soul who's going to have to decide in the end will be the Board Guide. As is usual, the vast majority of readers will just accept it. One or two will be delighted. And one or two others will be upset.

:confused: Nothing will have changed.

jo_b_2

squeaky wrote:

Hi, it's all getting a bit heavy here. I accept that while I've done a pretty fair job of indexing etc, I've also done a pretty lousy one as a BG. Since I never actually signed on to be a BG in the first place I have no concerns about stepping down.

Squeaky, I wasn't going to reply on this thread because I didn't want to continue to fuel this debate. I couldn't leave your last remarks without commenting on them.

Just wanted to make sure that you realised that you haven't done a lousy job as a Board Guide. You've worked really hard and tried to structure this board and encourage people to venture onto other boards.

I think people in general do appreciate the hard work you've put in. Try not to take suggestions and debate so personally. It isn't necessarily directed at you as an individual, just discussion about how best to keep the board friendly but organised.

Take care and make sure you have a nice break. Everybody respects your decision, I hope. We still want you to be a regular on here.

Thanks again. Jo.

pavlovs_dog

squeaky wrote:

Edit: Not that this will solve the problem - merely change it.

After all, who will decide what's an informative post and a chatty one? How many chatty comments in an informative post turn it into a chatty one? Any? One? Ten? If a post starts off as chatty and then becomes quite informative... when does it become informative enough to move? Who is going to have to decide?

The poor soul who's going to have to decide in the end will be the Board Guide. As is usual, the vast majority of readers will just accept it. One or two will be delighted. And one or two others will be upset.

:confused: Nothing will have changed.

im not sure i agree with you there.

i think there is usually quite a clear line between posts started to either share or gain info ...how do i/can i etc, and those started which are intended to be chatty...whats for dinner/tea

secondly, i think people have taken disappearing posts to heart. as far as i can see, with a subforum, it would be a case of moving a thread from the main board to the subboard, or vice versa ( i should imagine the former would happen more frequently than the latter, but stranger things have happened). as with any moved post, it is always easy to follow it from the link that remains, unlike disappearing posts who are resigned to the no mans land of space and time, never to be found again.

i dont think the how many off tangent posts/info posts does it take to qualify as one or the other should really be an issue - personally i feel this "must have a clear line between chat/info" ethos thats going on a strain and a bore. life isnt that black and white. its part of human nature to wander off topic slightly. its not as if we start off discussing slow cookers and end up talking about the footie, or analysing last nights episode of eastenders in some great depth, usually if we stray into that area 'deemed' as "off topic", it is usually because someone has shared a life experience, or some side issue has creeped up.

with a forum of this size, its simply not feasible to police every single post for chat (god forbid, they're talking amongst themselves again), and in trying to do so, we are setting ourselves up to fail. so long as things are in the right forum, not flame or abuse, libellous or contradictory to the aims of the site, then is a little bit of a natter really going to cause that much damage?

Queenie

squeaky wrote:

.... Since I never actually signed on to be a BG in the first place .....

Is that strictly true? Only I do recall reading on the Board Guide thread you volunteering to be an assistant to Judi.

To be really fair, you did in fact take over the mantle of BG even before Judi resigned.

Being a BG really isn't the issue here; how it is interpreted has become so!

Galtizz

I have some good news to announce I have twisted Squeaky's arm right up his back and pursuaded him to stay on as our Index guide :j he will be responsible for keeping the indexed threads upto date and making sure that all the links still work so if you spot anything that needs indexing or any links that don't work please let him know.

I will be the board guide. I am going to stop 'policing' the site and only move threads I feel would get a better response on a different board and I promise to do a better job of PM'ing posters if I feel their posts should be changed in any way. If there is anything about the day to day running of the board that you would like to discuss please let me know (not Squeaky)

I hope this will bring this discussion to a natural conclusion. If you still want to put forward any changes you must take it to the THIS SITE board because I really have absolutly no say over any major changes to the site, that really is the place to discuss it, the people who make major changes to the boards read that board and they will discuss it with you over there. If there are any more posts about changes I'll split the thread and move the suggestions over to the THIS SITE board because honestly, they are the only ones who can make changes like this.
Heres to a friendlier start to the week :beer: I hope everyone who has decided to avoid the board will come back now and we can get back to helping everyone with their old style questions, suggestions and tips!