If there is a second referendum ...

Lornapink

MisterMotivated wrote: »

Yet the media would have us believe that Brexit is solely the result of "Little Britain Syndrome" rather than admitting that more and more people, even on the continent are recognising that there is something seriously wrong with the EU.

MSM keeps Brits in the dark. I strongly recommend people watch YouTube in addition to the fake news MSM.


The Blair Institute forecasts nationalists will be in the majority in the EU by summer this year;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7o55rm7kK4

MobileSaver

MisterMotivated wrote: »

I would like someone to sell me on the benefits of staying in the EU (other than the avoidance of an apparently catastrophic Brexit)

I don't think that many people really believe Brexit will be catastrophic however most people do now realise we will all be worse off once we leave the EU; QED we will be better off if we stay...

Why would anyone need any other benefit than we will all be better off?!?!?

Spidernick

adonis wrote: »

Glad I voted leave then.

Is your username ironic, or a mere coincidence? You are obviously not prominent Remainer Lord Andrew Adonis!

DevilsAdvocate1

MobileSaver wrote: »

The first vote was over two and a half years ago...



Yes, absolutely, because unlike you and many other Brexiteers I actually believe in democracy wholeheartedly rather than just when it suits me.

So we just keep voting. Which vote will be the definitive one then? Or will nothing ever be decided?

MobileSaver

Lornapink wrote: »

Just about ever Leave voter I know has said they would protest in London if Brexit gets over-turned.

Back in the real world do you honestly think even 10% of people who voted Leave would protest in London?

Lornapink wrote: »

I strongly recommend people watch YouTube in addition to the fake news MSM.

LOL. You cannot seriously be suggesting people should watch YouTube to get the "real" news! :rotfl:

MobileSaver

DevilsAdvocate1 wrote: »

So we just keep voting. Which vote will be the definitive one then?

If enough people care sufficiently about the subject then yes we keep voting; a bit like we don't just have one General Election vote and that result stands forever...

... or do you think that because the British people voted for a Conservative government in 2017 then that should be the end of the matter and the Conservatives should remain in power for evermore?

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

Good for you. I'd love to know what you've got against prosperity?

What prosperity has the EU delivered to the people of its member states? Not much as far as most can see. Ask the Italians, Greeks, and other Club Med countries. Even the Germans are struggling to see the benefits.

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

What prosperity has the EU delivered to the people of its member states? Not much as far as most can see. Ask the Italians, Greeks, and other Club Med countries. Even the Germans are struggling to see the benefits.

Are those problems EU based or bad management based? Would Greece have done any better on the outside?

Funnily enough, despite a few right wing political wins, none of those countries show any indications of wanting to get out of the EU. They may moan about it and push back, but they still see it's better to be in than out.

At the risk of sounding like a Brexiteer here, I'm not really concerned about the prosperity of other nations, beyond what it means in terms of tourism and spending money. I'm interested in our prosperity in the EU. Are you going to try and say with a straight face that joining the EU made us less prosperous?

Herzlos

MisterMotivated wrote: »

Seamless trade. - could potentially be negotiated in a deal. Seamless trade would be in both sides' interests, but the EU insists on using it as a bargaining tool to force it's other demands upon us
Seamless movement. - last year, net EU-UK migration was 74,000 so I don't really see that as a good thing for a country with a chronic housing shortage already. And having to go through customs on your hen-do to Magaluf is hardly the worst thing ever
Standardized goods and services. - pretty sure we can set our own standards (we could even mirror the EU's if they were suitable) without having to pay for the privilege
International clout. - to do what exactly? sounds equivalent to being in a gang
Shared costs for research, defence, infrastructure. - we're paying a fortune to EDF for building Hinkley Point C through unnecessarily high strike price that will be passed on to consumers when we could've built it for half the price ourselves. Shared defence spending eventually leading to an EU army over which we have no/little control
Shared costs for standards and safety agencies. - paid for from our high fees. UK based agencies means more UK jobs
Access to their markets. - you've done that one already
Access to all the markets they have deals with - can negotiate our own access to other markets
Tougher consumer, employee and environmental regulations. - who says they'd be tougher? We can decide our own regulations as we see fit
No roaming charges. - hardly a massive consideration

70,000 odd net EU migrants is nothing in a country with a 65m population. We could handle that easily if we invested in infrastructure in a way the Tories refuse.

Travel is more than a week in mags for a lot of people. Most flights I've been on to big cities have been full of suits, people travelling to the EU and generating money. There's an argument that making that harder will reduce air miles, but none of those suits want to be travelling so would already get out of it if possible.

Sure we contribute to all of the agencies, which is much cheaper than having duplicate agencies. It also means we don't need to worry about equivalence and can sell anything into the market with no additional scrutiny.

Roaming charges isn't a big deal, but it's one of thousands of small things that the EU has done for us that the UK gov wouldn't (even if they later try to claim the credit). Other things include standardized phone chargers (remember the mess before that?), no hidden booking fees, no credit card surcharges.

Clout is important when negotiating with larger countries, like the US.

Brexit will still allow us inferior access to most of that stuff at a higher cost. I haven't seen any benefit that makes it worthwhile yet. Once I do I'll get right behind brexit.

LHW99

If enough people care sufficiently about the subject then yes we keep voting; a bit like we don't just have one General Election vote and that result stands forever...

Nice in theory, but I think if we remained in the EU and tried that approach it would be stamped on pretty quick.

Most flights I've been on to big cities have been full of suits, people travelling to the EU and generating money.

You manage to avoid the flights filled with stag / hen parties that started the celebrations well before boarding then?