If there is a second referendum ...

MisterMotivated

Tammer wrote: »

I think a sensible way forward would be for a 2nd referendum asking the following:
1. Do you agree the UK should proceed with withdrawing from the EU on Theresa May's deal?

2. Do you agree the UK should proceed with withdrawing from the EU with no deal?

3. Do you agree that Brexit should be cancelled with a further vote on it not sooner than 5 years from now?

Just my thoughts. Seems a pretty fair to all and democratic way forward? Maybe 1 option has to come in at least with more than 50% of the vote?

People seem to be trying to sneak this one through in the hope people won't notice that it splits the Leave vote in half. You could have 66% now vote for "Leave", but if that is made up of 33% voting for no deal and 33% voting for May's deal, Remain would still ultimately win with only 34%


How about:
1. Do you agree the UK should proceed with withdrawing from the EU on Theresa May's deal?

2. Do you agree the UK should proceed with withdrawing from the EU with no deal?

3. Do you agree that Brexit should be cancelled and the UK immediately adopts the Euro?

4. Do you agree that Brexit should be cancelled and the UK agrees to incremental "ever closer union" policies over the next 5 years?

Herzlos

Where's the option to remain but not integrate further?

There are options to avoid a split vote, done to death on here already. It's a fear with no basis and at this stage I think just an excuse to subvert democracy.

There's been lots of speculation on the negatives because some of them are tangible. No-one is talking about the benefits because there don't seem to be any. There are some hypothetical benefits if we can take advantage of them, with no indication that we can do so.

MisterMotivated

Herzlos wrote: »

I think just an excuse to subvert democracy.

Like demanding a second referendum because you disagree with the result?

Where's the option to remain but not integrate further?

Who says that will be possible? If we change our minds and decide we all love the EU, the pressure selling will be on to upgrade to the deluxe package with all the bells and whistles, and a little EU flag badge for each of us.

There's been lots of speculation on the negatives because some of them are tangible.

And yet they weren't convincing enough to lead to an overwhelming Remain win in 2016...?


I'm not saying Brexit will be a perfect situation that will make everyone trillionaires, reverse global warming and refreeze the polar ice caps, but I still prefer it to the march towards a United States of Europe with President Juncker (or whoever) at the helm.

kabayiri

Ken Clarke does not think there is an appetite amongst the EU politicians to extend A50.

I think there is a growing number on both sides wanting to close out on this now.

The cancellation of A50 unilaterally may be the only way of providing time for any further referendum. It won't go down well.

MisterMotivated

If A50 is cancelled unilaterally, I would expect there to be rioting on the streets for a good while, with things only escalating from there.

MobileSaver

MisterMotivated wrote: »

It's undemocratic because, ... blah, blah, blah

Absolutely nothing in the rest of your post explained how it was undemocratic! (Probably because asking people to vote is precisely what democracy is, so you are trying to defend the indefensible...)

MisterMotivated wrote: »

It did not happen before their 5 years had even begun.

Correct, it did not, but there is nothing undemocratic about holding another referendum whether it be one, two, three or five years later.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

If A50 is cancelled unilaterally, I would expect there to be rioting on the streets for a good while, with things only escalating from there.

There will always be some idiots looking for any excuse to start a riot, most of whom couldn't spell unilaterally if their lives depended on it.

I predict that if Article 50 is revoked (in which case I would expect some concessions/mitigation in restricting the impact of FoM) there will be some protests for a short while which will quickly fizzle out as ordinary people just get on with their lives.

MisterMotivated

MobileSaver wrote: »

Absolutely nothing in the rest of your post explained how it was undemocratic! (Probably because asking people to vote is precisely what democracy is, so you are trying to defend the indefensible...)

We HAD a vote. You now want another vote before the result of the first vote has even been implemented. What more do I need to explain? You can't try to pass off having a vote, losing the vote and therefore demanding ANOTHER vote as democracy. If there's another vote and Remain wins, are you then going to allow another vote if all the Leave voters kick up a massive fuss about how awful staying in the EU is probably going to be?

wunferall

Herzlos wrote: »

Where's the option to remain but not integrate further?

There isn't one.
There cannot be one.
Why?
Because as Cameron found out - and which led to the referendum in the first place - the EU is committed to an "ever closer union".

I almost feel sorry for the EU.
Almost.
They didn't heed the warnings that the UK could vote to leave and they haven't heeded the warnings that many of their citizens want changes.
Their refusal to listen to the will of their peoples will lead to changes in the EU even though they don't want to change.

What changes remains to be seen but May's elections will prove that things must change or the EU will see possibly fatal splits forming within the organisation.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-italy-budget-breakingviews/breakingviews-eu-rebels-will-lay-siege-to-brussels-idUKKCN1OW0PE

https://www.ft.com/content/380d415c-0ab4-11e9-9fe8-acdb36967cfc

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-right-wing-populism-is-eus-elephant-in-the-room/a-46909084

Personally I think it better that the UK is distancing itself from the omnishambles which the EU will undoubtedly descend into after their elections.
If remainers think Brexit has been bad so far it will be as nothing compared to the very real horrors which the EU will soon be facing.

Do you really want to be part of that; extremism controlling the direction?
I don't.
I suspect that the majority of British people won't, either.

MobileSaver

MisterMotivated wrote: »

We HAD a vote. You now want another vote ...

The first vote was over two and a half years ago...

MisterMotivated wrote: »

If there's another vote and Remain wins, are you then going to allow another vote if all the Leave voters kick up a massive fuss

Yes, absolutely, because unlike you and many other Brexiteers I actually believe in democracy wholeheartedly rather than just when it suits me.

cogito

Theophile wrote: »

Why would there be a prospect of every UK MEP being a UKIP member when a majority of the electorate is now pro Remain?

In your dreams, bro.