If there is a second referendum ...

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

As a Remainer, or 'Enemy of the People' as I am referred to around here - I would solely like to see some credible plan from Brexiters as to what is going to happen after March.

Not exactly a stampede of responses I see. No suprise there. All their energy seems to be spent on insisting on the democratic validity of the referendum and the consequences should it not be upheld. Welcome to Britain 2019....we're all going to be poorer but at least we upheld the vote. Welcome to our future!
:rotfl:

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Not exactly a stampede of responses I see. No suprise there. All their energy seems to be spent on insisting on the democratic validity of the referendum and the consequences should it not be upheld. Welcome to Britain 2019....we're all going to be poorer but at least we upheld the vote. Welcome to our future!
:rotfl:

A managed no deal is a perfectly credible plan. It's merely the desperate remainers who refuse to see it.

cogito

MobileSaver wrote: »

The first vote was over two and a half years ago...



Yes, absolutely, because unlike you and many other Brexiteers I actually believe in democracy wholeheartedly rather than just when it suits me.

And presumably we continue voting ad infinitum, every couple of years.

wunferall

cogito wrote: »

A managed no deal is a perfectly credible plan. It's merely the desperate remainers who refuse to see it.

Persistently and continually.
Then they wonder why no-one "bites".

I long since formed the opinion that desperate remainers (of which there does appear to be quite a few here) are not really interested in the future or in honest debate.
That AFAIK leaves only one reason for both the tone and the content of their posts.

MisterMotivated

Arklight wrote: »

I would solely like to see some credible plan from Brexiters as to what is going to happen after March.

I would like somoene to sell me on the benefits of staying in the EU (other than the avoidance of an apparently catastrophic Brexit) and what we actually get from them in return for our massive fees.

BobQ

Herzlos wrote: »

I don't think we're going to get closure on this for a very long time. Probably 2+ generations.


The most likely we are going to come to closure on Brexit is to go hard WTO, realise what it actually means and then re-join. That'll kill off all the complaints about subverting democracy and what-if's, and if we get back in quickly enough we can make a good start on recovering the damage caused.

Alas I doubt it will be that easy. Rejoining would mean within the Schengen Area and using the Euro. The idea that the EU would not enforce its rejoining rules to the letter is wishful thinking. Plus we would have lost an awful lot of goodwill.

Our only chance is to press the Abort key and have a second referendum on real options like Remain, EFTA and No deal. There is no majority for No deal in the UK.

BobQ

BobQ wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/polls-stay-eu-yougov-brexit-peoples-vote

Tromking wrote: »

Remainers underestimate the political fallout of an Art. 50 extension IMO.
I sense the lancing of the constitutional Brexit boil via a clean no deal Brexit is gaining traction among the public and MP’s alike.

And your evidence for this is what? Have you seen the link above?

BobQ

MisterMotivated wrote: »

People seem to be trying to sneak this one through in the hope people won't notice that it splits the Leave vote in half. You could have 66% now vote for "Leave", but if that is made up of 33% voting for no deal and 33% voting for May's deal, Remain would still ultimately win with only 34%

Your stated objection could be overcome by people ranking the options 1,2,3 and using the Single Transferable Vote System.So in your example (allowing that the leave options are unlikely to be exactly the same number of votes)

Remain 34%
May Deal 33.1%
No Deal 32.9%

No Deal would be eliminated and and the 32.9% redistributed between their second preferences. I have no idea how that would work out but if May Deal and No Deal really got 66% then the outcome would probably be to Leave with No Deal

So what is your next objection:)

Herzlos

BobQ wrote: »

Alas I doubt it will be that easy. Rejoining would mean within the Schengen Area and using the Euro. The idea that the EU would not enforce its rejoining rules to the letter is wishful thinking. Plus we would have lost an awful lot of goodwill.

Our only chance is to press the Abort key and have a second referendum on real options like Remain, EFTA and No deal. There is no majority for No deal in the UK.

Oh it'd absolutely be worse than remaining; all options are. But letting brexiteers get their WTO is going to be the only way to kill off any support for it.

Herzlos

MisterMotivated wrote: »

I would like somoene to sell me on the benefits of staying in the EU (other than the avoidance of an apparently catastrophic Brexit) and what we actually get from them in return for our massive fees.

Seamless trade.
Seamless movement.
Standardized goods and services.
International clout.
Shared costs for research, defence, infrastructure.
Shared costs for standards and safety agencies.
Access to their markets.
Access to all the markets they have deals with.
Tougher consumer, employee and environmental regulations.
No roaming charges.