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If there is a second referendum ...

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  • BobQ
    BobQ Posts: 11,181 Forumite
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    kabayiri wrote: »
    You can't offer May's deal if Parliament won't back it.

    It will just widen the division between the voters and MPs.

    By all means, put the May deal to Parliament first.

    Actually you can if Parliament decides it should be an option in a referendum which was the context for the comment.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • BobQ
    BobQ Posts: 11,181 Forumite
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    parking_question_chap wrote: »
    Why?

    We have already had that question.

    I would ask that question first as after 2 years of the debate, the lack of clarity over what Leave meant and the issues raised since, plus some population changes we ought to be clear that this is what the people really want.

    As posted earlier, Leave means Leave which the Rees Mogg thinks means no deal and WTO terms and Gove thinks means free trade with the EU. They cannot both be right.

    The present Cabinet and those who have resigned are on the verge of leaving a political legacy that means they will be hated by most of the electorate for ever more for the hash they have made of all this.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • wunferall
    wunferall Posts: 845 Forumite
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    HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »
    The solution to that is to reverse the cuts.

    Isn't that what Italy & now France are planning on doing which is upsetting the EU bigwigs?
    :whistle:
  • wunferall
    wunferall Posts: 845 Forumite
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    BobQ wrote: »
    No he said If we vote to leave ........we .........can maintain free trade etc

    It is you that does not understand. Maybe English is your second language?

    Looking from here it looks like you having difficulty.
    There's much difference between "can" and "will" as anybody well-educated will attest to.
    Just because I can place a bet at the bookies does not mean that I will.
    ;)
  • BobQ
    BobQ Posts: 11,181 Forumite
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    edited 16 December 2018 at 9:09PM
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    wunferall wrote: »
    Looking from here it looks like you having difficulty.
    There's much difference between "can" and "will" as anybody well-educated will attest to.
    Just because I can place a bet at the bookies does not mean that I will.
    ;)

    Absolutely! Yet another use of language that has caused confusion. So (according to you and your well educated and independent position), he was saying vote leave and its possible that we will maintain free trade. Rather disingenuous I would say to raise the possibility if he did not mean to deliver it.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • BobQ
    BobQ Posts: 11,181 Forumite
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    AFF8879 wrote: »
    Parliament can’t agree on anything though, so I think it’s perfectly fair to include May’s eventual deal as an option along with remain / WTO.

    Though the problem with the 3 binary options is that it would dilute the leave vote. Ie if you had a majority for leave but split between May/WTO, with remain as the single largest vote (ie 20% WTO / 35% May / 45% remain), I cannot really see any fair way to implement that.

    A single transferable vote would solve that.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,559 Forumite
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    AFF8879 wrote: »
    Though the problem with the 3 binary options is that it would dilute the leave vote. Ie if you had a majority for leave but split between May/WTO, with remain as the single largest vote (ie 20% WTO / 35% May / 45% remain), I cannot really see any fair way to implement that.

    There could be two questions -
    first: leave or stay;
    second: if the result of question 1 is leave, list the following options in order of preference - there could be half a dozen different options available to chose from.
  • Backbiter
    Backbiter Posts: 1,393 Forumite
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    parking_question_chap wrote: »
    Why?

    We have already had that question.

    The electorate has changed a bit since June 2016. A large number of voters aged 18-20 have since become eligible to vote, and didn't have that question in 2016. A fair number who did are sadly no longer with us.
  • Backbiter
    Backbiter Posts: 1,393 Forumite
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    Herzlos wrote: »
    A bit like brexit, then?

    I find it a rather bizarre argument. The economic self harm from brexit is fine to gain some pretend sovereignty, but the same doesn't apply to Scotland who'd never endure economic self harm to gain some sovereignty? Westminster makes rules for Scotland (sometimes unilaterally) for the stuff that isn't devolved (which may wants to unwind). Scotland is largely held in contempt by the Tories as as far as I can tell they are largely ignored at downing street and Westminster.
    Scotland in the EU would at least have a real seat at the table.

    I'm also not sure the funding gap is as bad as it sounds, since I think there are some accounting tricks that count some Scottish produce as British. Particularly oil. The Tories aren't so keen on keeping us because they like subsidizing us, after all. But that's all for the other thread :)

    We voted 65/45 to stay last time, with the promise that we'd get extra powers (lie) and that it as the o my way to stay in the EU (lie), couple that with the way Westminster is running and austerity I'm not sure we won't get a leave result next time. And the way things are going we're going to have a next time. It'll take some legendary politicians or bribery to keep the UK united if we leave and the economy suffers.
    I know things are a little different north of the border, but I didn't think you did percentages differently.:D
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,802 Forumite
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    Backbiter wrote: »
    I know things are a little different north of the border, but I didn't think you did percentages differently.:D

    Good point! I give everything 110% all of the time ;)
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