If there is a second referendum ...

kabayiri

the_flying_pig wrote: »

...
the remain campaign would need to be led by someone who was both authoritative and passionate - someone who'd happily look Farage or Johnson or whoever in the eye during a TV debate and point him to his face that he's outright lying, just talking rubbish, even to play rough a bit, e.g. to look Johnson hard in the eye while pointing out that he's a lifelong Europhile & that the 'road to damascus' moment he had in his 50s, after a lifetime in politics, was blatant, unashamed, opportunism.

Shouldn't an EU representative be invited into the campaign, to explain honestly where they saw the UK's future?

There was a Polish MEP I saw interviewed, and she was definitely for closing out on the existing deal. She didn't embrace the idea of an extension for another referendum at all. She was on the EU Brexit working group too.

At least she was honest.

walesrob

Backbiter wrote: »

A fair number who did are sadly no longer with us.

I read this line time and time again, and I'd love to know why a proportion of the population had suddenly died since 2016. I suspect its a convenient soundbite for remainers to repeat when required to justify a 2nd referendum.

Moby

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Remain can't be on the table, it would cause riots.

You cannot betray people by having more democracy. Two and a half years have shown that brexit cannot be delivered and the country is divided. Back to the people I say!

chucknorris

lisyloo wrote: »

I'm torn on it, but why is it not acceptable for people to change their mind?


BTW - I don't know anyone that's changed their mind. Does anyone know anyone who has?

I don't personally know anyone who has, but a few members of the question time audience have previously stated that they voted leave, but would now vote remain.

Herzlos

walesrob wrote: »

I read this line time and time again, and I'd love to know why a proportion of the population had suddenly died since 2016. I suspect its a convenient soundbite for remainers to repeat when required to justify a 2nd referendum.

Approximately 600,000 people die a year, predominantly the elderly (who were the only group to vote a majority leave). 2 years time passing means 1.2m people have died (something like 800,000 leavers), and in that same time a broadly similar number of 16 & 17 year olds (predominantly remainers) have become old enough to vote.

That along means the same question asked today may yield a different result.

No-one is going around killing leavers (though austerity is helping with that, which will only get worse), it's just the demographics changing over time.

A_Pandiculation

Moby wrote: »

You cannot betray people by having more democracy. Two and a half years have shown that brexit cannot be delivered and the country is divided. Back to the people I say!

No, two and a half years have shown that our government seem unwilling to deliver Brexit.

Delivering Brexit is potentially extremely easy. We say we are going (did that bit) then we should have said something like " Okay, two years & we're off. You have two years to decide whether or not you want to carry on with mutual trade and if you do, how much in the way of obstacles you want. We are preparing for a WTO Brexit."

That would have saved us from most of the nonsense we've seen on all sides for these past two years and already the UK would know it's future with far more certainty that we do now.
Therefore it's fairly obvious that it's only the underhanded attempts to keep us in the EU that have led to uncertainty.

Herzlos

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

No, two and a half years have shown that our government seem unwilling to deliver Brexit.

Delivering Brexit is potentially extremely easy. We say we are going (did that bit) then we should have said something like " Okay, two years & we're off. You have two years to decide whether or not you want to carry on with mutual trade and if you do, how much in the way of obstacles you want. We are preparing for a WTO Brexit."

That would have saved us from most of the nonsense we've seen on all sides for these past two years and already the UK would know it's future with far more certainty that we do now.
Therefore it's fairly obvious that it's only the underhanded attempts to keep us in the EU that have led to uncertainty.

That would only work if we are prepared to walk away with a hard brexit, because the EUs stance would still be "farewell. Pick an option from the list".
If we could only settle one of them and admit to who we're going to upset we could be out already.

Pennywise

Herzlos wrote: »

Approximately 600,000 people die a year, predominantly the elderly (who were the only group to vote a majority leave). 2 years time passing means 1.2m people have died (something like 800,000 leavers), and in that same time a broadly similar number of 16 & 17 year olds (predominantly remainers) have become old enough to vote.

But equally, some who voted remain last time may have joined the workforce, got married, moved, etc., and may not vote to leave given more worldly experience.

Some who didn't vote last time, may not vote to leave - not all non-voters were remainers.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

That would only work if we are prepared to walk away with a hard brexit, because the EUs stance would still be "farewell. Pick an option from the list".
If we could only settle one of them and admit to who we're going to upset we could be out already.

It's the type of exit set out in the leaflet Dave Cameron & co sent out to all the households.

Clearly, he would not have signed off on the wording if they weren't prepared to accept the consequences.

Only that leaflet represented the official interpretation; anything said by individual Leave campaigners was just usual political campaign rhetoric.

Herzlos

lisyloo wrote: »

BTW - I don't know anyone that's changed their mind. Does anyone know anyone who has?

Ukcarper mentions that he was a remainer who changed his mind after the EUs behaviour, often enough to make me suspicious.

Personally I know a few leaves who regret it, including one who admits it was a terrible idea but wouldn't change his vote because that'd be hypocritical. He's happy for the UK to revert to the stone age to get away from the EU, though.

I don't know any remainers who have changed their minds.