If there is a second referendum ...

Masomnia

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In one form or another there'll be a backlash against the political establishment. Concern must be that a Corbyn coalition Government with the SNP & Co would send the UK economy into a total tailspin.

That's what worries me more than anything. If Brexit is shooting ourselves in the foot, then voting for Corbyn is attempting to deal with it by amputating said foot with a rusty hacksaw.

I think Corbyn has a point though, in that if the PM can no longer command a majority in the House then there should be an election; perhaps for different reasons though.The government basically has no objective other than to sort out Brexit and if they can't do it then we should go to the polls imho.

ukcarper

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I worry about the effect of impoverishing the country due to Brexit and making the lives of those 17.4m people much worse not better.

When we leave and they realise that the EU had the square root of naff all to do with their problems, and leaving has made their lives worse, who do you think they'll turn their anger on next?

When many of them lose their job, or their home, or their small business, or their life savings, the anger directed at the government that took them out and caused this mess will be breathtaking.

And when they realise they've been conned by a bunch of elitist public schoolboys such as Johnson, Reese Mogg and Farage, I'd be surprised if we didn't have widespread civil unrest.

If that happens, although it's not a certainty it will they will have to accept it. If MPs truly accepted the result and spent more time looking for a compromise instead of playing politics or trying to overturn result of referendum we would be it a better position.

Masomnia

buglawton wrote: »

Minutes ago on the radio I'm hearing a Remainer politician uttering the usual slogan that a hard exit will be bad for 'jobs and growth'. Could that same politician explain then why in the last 30 years, Stoke-on-Trent hasn't benefited from any of that wonderful EU 'jobs and growth'?

Anything positive in the past 30 years is down to the EU; anything negative the fault of Mrs T.

BikingBud

MobileSaver wrote: »

Winning the General Election means you get to rule the country for the next five years. A vote of no confidence absolutely challenges whether you get to rule the country for those five years.

A vote of no confidence in the Government based upon poor performance, is entirely different from Parliament failing to deliver due to petty squabbling and mixing party politics with promises to the electorate.

Deliberately frustrating delivery of Brexit and allowing Comrade Corbyn into Downing Street will be a far bigger regret than clean Brexit.

buglawton

Masomnia wrote: »

Anything positive in the past 30 years is down to the EU; anything negative the fault of Mrs T.

Ah so Thatcher has been secretly alive and well and sabotaging the Stoke-on-Trent economy all that time? Genius!

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Masomnia wrote: »

That's what worries me more than anything. If Brexit is shooting ourselves in the foot, then voting for Corbyn is attempting to deal with it by amputating said foot with a rusty hacksaw.

I think Corbyn has a point though, in that if the PM can no longer command a majority in the House then there should be an election; perhaps for different reasons though.The government basically has no objective other than to sort out Brexit and if they can't do it then we should go to the polls imho.

I'm pretty right of centre economically and as much as I dislike Corbyn and agree he'd be a disaster for the UK economy, Brexit in any flavour other than EEA/CU would be far worse and do more lasting damage than anything Comrade Corbyn could do in 5 years.

Particularly given Corby would almost certainly be forced into minority governing in a coalition with LD and SNP that would prevent his worst excesses from getting anywhere near legislation.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

buglawton wrote: »

Could that same politician explain then why in the last 30 years, Stoke-on-Trent hasn't benefited from any of that wonderful EU 'jobs and growth'?

The very factory in Stoke on Trent that Theresa May made her speech from this morning is thriving, and I'm quite sure the £492,000 in EU funding that it received benefitted it a great deal.

Masomnia

We'll have to wait and see. If you'd said at the time of the referendum that 2 years down the line we would be a couple of months from leaving with the deal negotiated almost certain to fail, with unemployment still at record lows, wages growing ahead of inflation, and the UK economy growing while Germany was contracting even I would say you were fantastical... but here we are. All bets are off I think.

BobQ

buglawton wrote: »

Ah so Thatcher has been secretly alive and well and sabotaging the Stoke-on-Trent economy all that time? Genius!

I would not put it past her.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Masomnia wrote: »

We'll have to wait and see.

All bets are off I think.

The Conservative government has done it's own analysis and concluded that every single form of Brexit makes the UK dramatically poorer than staying in the EU.

If you'd asked me a few years ago would our own government knowingly and willingly pursue a course of action that would deliberately make all of us permanently worse off I'd have said you were mad to even think such a thing.

But here we are...

I firmly believe the future of representative democracy is on the line here, as if Parliament deliver a result that impoverishes us all there will be no return of trust, no bringing the UK back together, and the future then would truly be bleak.

As was noted today....

What was advertised as a strength has made Britain weaker. This is Brexit. There really is no other kind. A majority of MPs know it, but too many still skulk in the shadow of the truth. They worry that it offends the spirit of democracy to criticise a decision taken by referendum. They quail at the thought of another campaign to supersede the last one.

But it is also an offence against democracy for elected politicians to stare disaster in the face and turn away through fear of saying aloud what they know Brexit to be: a mess, a mistake, a wrong turn, a dead end. That is the irreducible core of the thing. It has been hiding all this time in plain sight.