If there is a second referendum ...

Guerillatoker

buglawton wrote: »

What's unbelievable about the inability to regenerate itself in the post-manufacturing globalised age is that it's brilliantly located halfway between Manchester and Birmingham with a nearby M6 connection and direct trains to London and all other parts.

I doubt it has any sizeable impact but its an irritating drive if you're coming from the East.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

If that happens, although it's not a certainty it will they will have to accept it. If MPs truly accepted the result and spent more time looking for a compromise instead of playing politics or trying to overturn result of referendum we would be it a better position.

I agree we've wasted a huge amount of time in political infighting that could have gone elsewhere, but I'm not sure we'd be in any better position; we're in almost exactly the same position regarding the EU as we started in, which is the only position we can have that fits the red lines.


Where did you see us being if we were unified?

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

When people say Brexit will be bad for 'us', the 'us' they are thinking of is their own personal lot.

What's best for the country as a whole is usually what's best for the individual. Stronger economy means (notionally) lower taxes and more public services. I'm fairly isolated from Brexit (being in a cheap home, paid above average, not reliant on UK/EU trade, private medical), I might actually be better off due to it (cheaper housing will make the jump up easier, foreign investments), but I can still see that Brexit is a bad idea if it makes other people worse off.

kabayiri wrote: »

It's been successful so far, but I think it will be overtaken in the coming decades.

Then we can always leave in the coming decades if we can't do what we need to from within?

I'd rather fashion a future with India and China. These will continue to grow (with a few hiccups) whilst parts of Europe stagnate.

And what about that can't we do from within the EU? It's the UK that held back the EU/India trade deal over immigration.

We can get cheaper resource from these places, and Chinese students are amongst the most successful, both here and in the USA.

And we can't do that from within the EU, how?

The EU/Eurozone is far from perfect.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. No-one has said the EU is close to perfect, but it seems to be significantly better than being on our own (at least until a plan for Brexit has been made). We can make it better from within, from without we'll just need to put up with it.

StevieJ

kabayiri wrote: »

So, you're a globalist when it comes to money, but you don't like my notion of importing cheap labour from all over the globe?

How do you square this?

I am not bothered, I just think the electorate need to know what they are voting for.

Thrugelmir

buglawton wrote: »

What's unbelievable about the inability to regenerate itself in the post-manufacturing globalised age is that it's brilliantly located halfway between Manchester and Birmingham with a nearby M6 connection and direct trains to London and all other parts.

Cheaper unskilled Labour available elsewhere in the world. Modern manufacturing requires little labour either.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Cheaper unskilled Labour available elsewhere in the world. Modern manufacturing requires little labour either.

Wrt Stoke a particular Spanish company took a lot of Pottery workers to Spain, where the potware cured better in the warmer conditions.

I hope people don't dig too deeply in what help this company got from the EU !

In fairness to the EU though, they can only make broad brushstroke decisions from the centre.

Liverpool/Merseyside has received a lot of money, but has it really been transformative?

kabayiri

buglawton wrote: »

...
I did live near and regularly shop in Stoke and it's environs.
...

I did wonder about the username

I still have a lot of time for the area. DD lives in Newcastle and attends Keele (I await some stick for this last point!).

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

I agree we've wasted a huge amount of time in political infighting that could have gone elsewhere, but I'm not sure we'd be in any better position; we're in almost exactly the same position regarding the EU as we started in, which is the only position we can have that fits the red lines.


Where did you see us being if we were unified?

If MPs accepted the result of referendum and stopped trying to overturn it, agree a position that did that and put that forward it would have put us in a better position in negotiations and we would not be subject to a small number of MPs blocking progress.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

If MPs accepted the result of referendum and stopped trying to overturn it, agree a position that did that and put that forward it would have put us in a better position in negotiations and we would not be subject to a small number of MPs blocking progress.

What progress has been blocked?
What position should we have put forward?

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

If MPs accepted the result of referendum and stopped trying to overturn it, agree a position that did that and put that forward it would have put us in a better position in negotiations and we would not be subject to a small number of MPs blocking progress.

It is largely the leavers in the Tory party opposing this, its a pretty small number of Tory Remainers expected to vote against. Equally the DUP are opposing