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If there is a second referendum ...
Comments
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I can understand why Leavers didn't support TM's deal - as it was effectively remaining in EU.
What I don't understand, why Remainers didn't support the deal. If they want to remain, then TM's deal effectively kept UK in EU indefinitely.
Eh?
May's deal is hard Brexit - out of EU, out of SM and CU, out of everything. No compromise at all for remainers.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
If someone voted for xenophobic reasons, let them answer honestly. If they voted because they can't compete for work, let them answer honestly.
How many options there should be? Having said that, I don't think most people have any issue with 3 freedoms namely, goods, service, capital. It is the people (FOM) which is most contentious.Happiness is buying an item and then not checking its price after a month to discover it was reduced further.0 -
I don't think most people have any issue with 3 freedoms namely, goods, service, capital. It is the people (FOM) which is most contentious.
And yet it really, really shouldn't be.
I live in a part of the country where we have under 2% unemployment, and where there is a huge shortage of people to do the jobs on offer. Even McDonalds is paying north of £10 an hour for entry level burger flippers up here.
I get that in some parts of the country people feel threatened by foreigners competing for jobs or whatever, but there are also huge parts of the country where there's a huge shortage of labour and businesses are being throttled by the inability to find staff.
It's pretty clear that most Brits point blank refuse to move to where the work is. And equally clear that, for example, tourism businesses in the Scottish Highlands can't move their business to say Sunderland or wherever there's a surplus of workers.
The government has proven itself to be completely incompetent when it comes to managing the system to provide enough non-EU labour for industries that badly need it.
In a genuine effort to move beyond petty point scoring, how do you see this fundamental problem being resolved?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Enterprise_1701C wrote: »They need to consider the wishes of the 52% which means NOT consider the wishes of the 48%
That's called 'The Tyranny of the Majority'
What happens in a real democracy is that one looks at the referendum result (a narrow margin in an advisory non-binding vote) and acts accordingly : BINO or Norway + or some other extremely soft-ish Brexit.
And then we can all move on.
Don't blame me, I voted Remain.0 -
Enterprise_1701C wrote: »They need to consider the wishes of the 52% which means NOT consider the wishes of the 48%
They need to consider the wishes of everyone. A 52/48 split should mean a soft/gradual Brexit because only half of the electorate want it. a 60/40 split would mean a harder one, all the way up to a 100/0 split.
What happens if we get another 51.9/48.1? We'll probably still grind on getting very little done.
Hopefully we get some significant result this time, now that Leave has a definition. By significant I mean anything outside of a statistical error, maybe at least 52.1 (+/-2 is still >50) and ideally 54+.0 -
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Hopefully we get some significant result this time, now that Leave has a definition. By significant I mean anything outside of a statistical error, maybe at least 52.1 (+/-2 is still >50) and ideally 54+.
Yeah, and a bad tempered campaign to boot, I wager.
If you think the last one was nasty, just wait for this one.
Some people will be annoyed at being marginalised as Remainers for 2 years.
Some people will be annoyed at being called Gammons and Racists for 2 years.
(I'm doing 2 for 1 on bulk popcorn, if anybody is interested...)0 -
So if there is 2nd ref and Remain:Leave is 52:48, then will you
1. Discard this result as there is no "clear" majority.
2. If #1 is true, then 1st ref result remains valid.
3. How many years later there will be 3rd ref to see if people changed minds again?
If you remember the parliamentary petition setup by a leave supporter hoping to scupper a narrow remain win, you could just set a minimum turnout of say 75%, a winning margin of say 10% or whatever and make it legally binding.
Leave made it obvious before the vote that a narrow remain win wouldn't be accepted (Farage called it "unfinished business") and we should never have had an advisory election without rules on when the result would be accepted.Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness:
People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.
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They need to consider the wishes of everyone. A 52/48 split should mean a soft/gradual Brexit because only half of the electorate want it. a 60/40 split would mean a harder one, all the way up to a 100/0 split.
What happens if we get another 51.9/48.1? We'll probably still grind on getting very little done.
Hopefully we get some significant result this time, now that Leave has a definition. By significant I mean anything outside of a statistical error, maybe at least 52.1 (+/-2 is still >50) and ideally 54+.mayonnaise wrote: »That's called 'The Tyranny of the Majority'
What happens in a real democracy is that one looks at the referendum result (a narrow margin in an advisory non-binding vote) and acts accordingly : BINO or Norway + or some other extremely soft-ish Brexit.
And then we can all move on.
So, let me get this right, if remain had won by 52/48 split you would have been happy for us to half remain?
Of course you can say anything because that didnt happen, but I bet if there was another referendum with remain on the table and remain won 52/48 you would all be saying that that was it, you did not have to respect the 48% and we have to respect the vote.What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare0 -
Enterprise_1701C wrote: »They need to consider the wishes of the 52% which means NOT consider the wishes of the 48%
That would be easy enough if all of the 52% wanted the same thing, the problem is they don't0 -
They could ... postpone A50 with the agreement of the EU; and go back to the people to ask them some serious honest questions as to why they voted to Leave in such large numbers.
What does that solve. The EU aren't going to be accomodating. We should now be negotiating hard with the EU. On a basic framework for which there's consensus agreement within Parliament. Red lines are irrelevant, the UK is leaving.0
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