If there is a second referendum ...

andrewf75

Herzlos wrote: »

Wouldn't hurt to ask again anyway, if we're asking Q2.

It would hurt in my view because it rejects the vote 2 years ago. I wanted to remain and I know that a 2nd vote would likely return a remain vote, but that isn't the point.

To remain now would be extremely damaging. Which is very unfortunate, because leaving will also be extremely damaging!

ukcarper

andrewf75 wrote: »

I kind of agree. I don't particularly want remain as an option, but I know I'm in a minority there! Its probably the only thing there is a majority for as herzlos says.

Its a mess. May screwed all of this up by ruling out the Norway option, the only way we could have respected the referendum result, protected the economy, NI and got a majority on side and moved forward. Now its a fight between the extremes and that isn't going to end well for anyone.

Do you really think Norway Deal respects the result of referendum I don't think any of people I know who voted leave would be happy with it.

Filo25

Herzlos wrote: »

Wouldn't hurt to ask again anyway, if we're asking Q2.

I would ask but not in a straight Leave v Remain, rather it would Remain v No Deal v May's "deal" (you could even have other options on there if they are realistically deliverable not some pie in the sky nonsense) based on STV, first to 50% public support wins.

Realistically I don't see how the Hard Brexit enthusiasts get their beloved "No Deal" without a second ref including Remain anyway, I can't see Parliament delivering it, I also can't see it winning in a straight vote v May's "deal".

At this stage though there isn't a majoity for anything in Parliament, things will have to get a bit more desperate to push some of the various factions to compromise and settle for something that works for them as being vaguely acceptable rather than their ideal outcome, and honsestly nobody has an idea what that outcoem is likely to be at the moment., I think a second ref is still possible but certainly less than a 50:50 chance.

andrewf75

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really think Norway Deal respects the result of referendum I don't think any of people I know who voted leave would be happy with it.

It does in that we leave the EU. Simple as that! Most leave voters won't be happy anyway whatever happens because they were sold an impossible dream. This is complicated enough without trying to satisfy what we think people wanted from brexit. People should have known that there was no clear path and that Brexit could end up meaning any number of things. They took the risk. There is only one definition of Brexit: Ceasing to be a member of the EU.

I think a lot would have been happy with that option had it been suggested right from the start before any of these red lines were issued.

Filo25

andrewf75 wrote: »

It does in that we leave the EU. Simple as that!

I think a lot would have been happy with that option had it been suggested right from the start before any of these red lines were issued.

Yep it delivers on the rather simplistic question asked, I don't doubt it would displease a lot of people, but I think nearly any option for Brexit is going to displease a lot of people.

ukcarper

andrewf75 wrote: »

It does in that we leave the EU. Simple as that! Most leave voters won't be happy anyway whatever happens because they were sold an impossible dream. This is complicated enough without trying to satisfy what we think people wanted from brexit. People should have known that there was no clear path and that Brexit could end up meaning any number of things. They took the risk. There is only one definition of Brexit: Ceasing to be a member of the EU.

I think a lot would have been happy with that option had it been suggested right from the start before any of these red lines were issued.

I really believe that is paying lip service to result and no I don't think people who voted leave would have been happy with it from start.

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

Yep it delivers on the rather simplistic question asked, I don't doubt it would displease a lot of people, but I think nearly any option for Brexit is going to displease a lot of people.

I agree nothing is going to satisfy every body especially as no one wants to compromise. I wonder if Mays deal was sold better and not derided by all MPs because of thier inability to compromise it might have satisfy enough people.

Filo25

ukcarper wrote: »

I agree nothing is going to satisfy every body especially as no one wants to compromise. I wonder if Mays deal was sold better and not derided by all MPs because of thier inability to compromise it might have satisfy enough people.

The problem with May's deal is that it isn't much of a deal, it is pretty much a Blind Brexit, another exercise in kicking the can down the road while trying and failing to please enough people to get it through Parliament, by promsiing all things to all people.

It may eventually get enough support to pass, but I doubt it will be tomorrow!

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

The problem with May's deal is that it isn't much of a deal, it is pretty much a Blind Brexit, another exercise in kicking the can down the road while trying and failing to please enough people to get it through Parliament, by promsiing all things to all people.

It may eventually get enough support to pass, but I doubt it will be tomorrow!

Would any deal apart from no deal or remain be just that as future relationship can't be fully resolve until we conclude negotiations on the that relationship.

I agree I don't think she will win vote.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really think Norway Deal respects the result of referendum I don't think any of people I know who voted leave would be happy with it.

It was touted as an option for a few Leave campaigners, including Farage (repeatedly).


Would it upset more people than a WTO brexit would? Does it count as "Leaving the EU?"