If there is a second referendum ...

BobQ

badmemory wrote: »

Ballot paper


Q1 Vote for Leave or Remain


Q2 If the leave vote wins

Vote no deal or TMs deal


That way someone can vote remain & then no deal. That way everybody gets a say in the final answer. Then hopefully everybody can stop all the name calling and at least pretend to be civil.

STV solves this multiple question

BobQ

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really think Norway Deal respects the result of referendum I don't think any of people I know who voted leave would be happy with it.

I do. It has downsides but it is better than No deal although worse than Remain.

BobQ

ukcarper wrote: »

I really believe that is paying lip service to result and no I don't think people who voted leave would have been happy with it from start.

You are right but 52:48 shows that a no-deal Brexit is not a consensus view. You can claim that all of the 52% wanted a no deal Brexit (and we won) but since the people who advocate no deal cannot now command a majority in Parliament or the Conservative Party, something has to give. A vote on the options is needed by the public.

That is democracy and those who suggest otherwise are simply trying to drive through an option that does not command majority support.

May will be condemned by history for what she is trying to do. If she manages to drive this through, she will be damned by history. Failing to deliver Brexit would be the best option for her to salvage some credibility as someone who tried and failed. But by holding a second referndum, if Leave wins she can proceed with the consensus solution and if she loses the referendum she can fade gracefully out of politics.

ukcarper

BobQ wrote: »

You are right but 52:48 shows that a no-deal Brexit is not a consensus view. You can claim that all of the 52% wanted a no deal Brexit (and we won) but since the people who advocate no deal cannot now command a majority in Parliament or the Conservative Party, something has to give. A vote on the options is needed by the public.

That is democracy and those who suggest otherwise are simply trying to drive through an option that does not command majority support.

May will be condemned by history for what she is trying to do. If she manages to drive this through, she will be damned by history. Failing to deliver Brexit would be the best option for her to salvage some credibility as someone who tried and failed. But by holding a second referndum, if Leave wins she can proceed with the consensus solution and if she loses the referendum she can fade gracefully out of politics.

Don't agree I'm not saying there is a consensus for no deal but I don't believe there is a consensus for remain, May is trying to reach a compromise and even though I voted remain I wouldn't condemn her for that. The only people want another referendum is because they don't want to leave and do not accept the result of referendum.

BobQ

Can someone who favours a No Deal outcome please clarify something?

Crispin Blunt MP said this evening that WTO terms mean that we could agree with the EU that we would each apply 0% tarrifs on imports. He said this would solve the issue of friction-less trade.

Is it not the case that if we apply 0% to EU imports WTO rules mean that we must apply 0% to all other imports from WTO members?

If so how can we negotiate a trade deal with (say US) if we are required to apply the same tariff (ie 0%) to their imports. What is there to negotiate?

BobQ

ukcarper wrote: »

Don't agree I'm not saying there is a consensus for no deal but I don't believe there is a consensus for remain, May is trying to reach a compromise and even though I voted remain I wouldn't condemn her for that. The only people want another referendum is because they don't want to leave and do not accept the result of referendum.

Then you have nothing to worry about from a second referendum. Leave will win and you will also know if people want May's deal or No Deal?

ukcarper

BobQ wrote: »

Then you have nothing to worry about from a second referendum. Leave will win and you will also know if people want May's deal or No Deal?

I worry about the effect of telling almost 17.5 million people thier vote was wasted.

Thrugelmir

ukcarper wrote: »

I worry about the effect of telling almost 17.5 million people thier vote was wasted.

In one form or another there'll be a backlash against the political establishment. Concern must be that a Corbyn coalition Government with the SNP & Co would send the UK economy into a total tailspin.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ukcarper wrote: »

I worry about the effect of telling almost 17.5 million people thier vote was wasted.

I worry about the effect of impoverishing the country due to Brexit and making the lives of those 17.4m people much worse not better.

When we leave and they realise that the EU had the square root of naff all to do with their problems, and leaving has made their lives worse, who do you think they'll turn their anger on next?

When many of them lose their job, or their home, or their small business, or their life savings, the anger directed at the government that took them out and caused this mess will be breathtaking.

And when they realise they've been conned by a bunch of elitist public schoolboys such as Johnson, Reese Mogg and Farage, I'd be surprised if we didn't have widespread civil unrest.

buglawton

Minutes ago on the radio I'm hearing a Remainer politician uttering the usual slogan that a hard exit will be bad for 'jobs and growth'. Could that same politician explain then why in the last 30 years, Stoke-on-Trent hasn't benefited from any of that wonderful EU 'jobs and growth'?