SMETS 1 Meters - No More

Anthorn

EachPenny wrote: »

And once again a reminder that no OTA software upgrade can convert SMETS1 hardware into SMETS2 hardware.

Getting silly now.

If that were the case Microsoft could upgrade my ancient box into the latest super-duper, do-everything, gaming laptop OTA. But Microsoft just upgrade the OS software and that's what's going to happen with SMETS1 meters.

ROFL

Does my SMETS1 meters have to be replaced?
In early 2018 the government and industry agreed to build interfaces which allow the earlier SMETS1 Smart Meters to be moved to the new DCC system supporting SMETS2 meters. This means that, although you may have lost Smart functionally when you changed supplier, when it is enrolled into the new DCC system that functionally will come back, and you’ll be able to change suppliers without technical problems. The process of moving the meters across system is called enrolment and adoption.

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

EachPenny

Anthorn wrote: »

If that were the case Microsoft could upgrade my ancient box into the latest super-duper, do-everything, gaming laptop OTA. But Microsoft just upgrade the OS software and that's what's going to happen with SMETS1 meters.

Exactly the point. A software upgrade could modify the behaviour of a SMETS1 meter to enable it to behave differently to the way it was originally designed, but it cannot make the hardware changes necessary to make it into a SMETS2 meter.

So we end up with SMETS1 meters using a different system to try and replicate some SMETS2 functionality, which inevitably will be troublesome.

No conspiracy theory is required to know that a public-sector backed IT project of that kind is not going to work out as promised.

Anthorn

EachPenny wrote: »

Exactly the point. A software upgrade could modify the behaviour of a SMETS1 meter to enable it to behave differently to the way it was originally designed, but it cannot make the hardware changes necessary to make it into a SMETS2 meter.

So we end up with SMETS1 meters using a different system to try and replicate some SMETS2 functionality, which inevitably will be troublesome.

No conspiracy theory is required to know that a public-sector backed IT project of that kind is not going to work out as promised.

Let's look at the way the reading of smart meters works:

An energy supplier arranges for its agent to fit a particular brand of smart meter and the reading of that smart meter is handled by the manufacturer's system or their agents system [but E.ON to date has fitted 3 different makes of smart meters). It seems to me that diverting the data to the`DCC is child's play. I could probably do it myself! Further it is equally child's play to add new functions to the SMETS1 meters to enable extra functions which SMETS2 meters don't have.

Now let's look at that link I posted in a previous post:
https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

On that page is a list of SMETS1 smart meters which will be adopted by the DCC:

Existing SMETS1 meters in the table below will be migrated to the new DCC SMETS2 system through the enrolment and adoption process. If you are wondering if you have one of these SMETS1 meters, look up your meter model number in the table below

thorganby

Anthorn wrote: »

No-one has such evidence because no-one has tried it yet. Along the same lines the NAO report cannot similarly be based on evidence because it hasn't happened yet. It's all speculation.

What we have at this time is proposals from OFGEM and responses from smart meter manufacturers and further that some manufacturers will be able to update their smart meters but a minority won't. That's it.

What we have in opposition is an unproven conspiracy theory in that the government, DCC and OFGEM are telling porkies about the upcoming software upgrade to SMETS1 meters. Personally I don't take notice of conspiracy theories.

Anthorn wrote: »

But the government, DCC and Ofgem says they will upgrade SMETS1 smart meters OTA with new software to enable interoperability with the DCC and this has been agreed by the majority of smart meter manufacturers but not all of them. That is by now a matter of public record.

So now we are back at the conspiracy theory in that the government, DCC and OFGEM are telling porkies about that upgrade. As I said before I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories mainly because conspiracy theories being theories are not based on fact.

Anthorn wrote: »

Getting silly now.

If that were the case Microsoft could upgrade my ancient box into the latest super-duper, do-everything, gaming laptop OTA. But Microsoft just upgrade the OS software and that's what's going to happen with SMETS1 meters.

ROFL

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

Anthorn wrote: »

Let's look at the way the reading of smart meters works:

An energy supplier arranges for its agent to fit a particular brand of smart meter and the reading of that smart meter is handled by the manufacturer's system or their agents system [but E.ON to date has fitted 3 different makes of smart meters). It seems to me that diverting the data to the`DCC is child's play. I could probably do it myself! Further it is equally child's play to add new functions to the SMETS1 meters to enable extra functions which SMETS2 meters don't have.

Now let's look at that link I posted in a previous post:
https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

On that page is a list of SMETS1 smart meters which will be adopted by the DCC:

Yes you are getting silly now and the more that you post, the more obvious it is to us all that you really do not understand the proposed SMETS1 smart meter adoption by the DCC project.

You have chosen to believe rubbish peddled by the technically ignorant i.e. government civil servants, inept incompetents at Ofgem and various journalist who can't be bothered to do enough research and who lack the necessary technical knowledge to fully understand the complexities of this problem writing technically inaccurate articles, yet you ignore the recently published factual Nation Audit Office report:

The Department has not yet decided if it will attempt to enrol all makes of SMETS1 meter. Therefore, the Department should be cautious about suggesting that the successful enrolment and adoption of all SMETS1 meters is inevitable.

Do you really think that meter manufacturers will supply new firmware for meters that they sold to suppliers years ago, when they want to sell their new SMETS2 meters!

There is no magic new software that you keep referring to enable interoperability with the DCC or allow new functionality to be added to old redundant SMETS1 meters. Only minor changes can be made remotely to enable these meters to work with a new totally separate temporary interface appended to the DCC to facilitate interoperability.

This is certainly not the "child's play" that you think it is.

Over the last decade many different types of meter have been fitted that do not meet the latest SMETS2 common standard and these are now obsolete. Many of these old meters use SIM cards which cannot be reprogrammed via a remote OTA update to communicate with the DCC and only the latest meters conform to the common SMETS2 data protocols and security algorithms.

Energy company reps have lied to customers, telling them that they can use smart meters fitted by other suppliers due to ignorance. Even the same manufacturers meters fitted by different energy suppliers use their own bespoke encryption algorithms making them incompatible with other suppliers systems because they were never made to conform to an industry wide standard using approved protocols as they should have been.

If some of these meters can be adopted by the DCC they will communicate via a totally new interface, basically just to allow the embarrassing lack interoperability until they are eventually replaced, nothing more.

If any of these smart meters are adopted by the DCC they will not then become SMETS2 meters.

Anthorn

thorganby wrote: »

(BIG CUT)
You have chosen to believe rubbish peddled by the technically ignorant i.e. government civil servants, inept incompetents at Ofgem and various journalist who can't be bothered to do enough research and who lack the necessary technical knowledge to fully understand the complexities of this problem writing technically inaccurate articles, yet you ignore the recently published factual Nation Audit Office report:
(And another big cut)

Here we go again. I keep asking for evidence that what we are being told about the SMETS1 smart meter upgrade is in your own words "rubbish". So perhaps you can post that evidence which no-one else has posted.

I have not ignored the NAO report at all. In fact if you read back in this thread you will see that I commented on it. The NAO didn't post any evidence either.

What you and others including the NAO are doing is speculating on something that hasn't happened yet. What we have is a proposal to update the software of SMETS1 smart meters and responses from smart meter manufacturers that the majority of the meters can be upgraded but a minority cannot be upgraded. At this time that's it. Read back in this thread and read the Ofgem open letter.

I have actually posted all of the above previously in this thread but it appears that you have not read the posts in this thread including my posts which you quoted.

xylophone

It's quite cleaver what they have done I think.

Cutting edge?:)

misterbarlow

I know one of the big six are having nothing but trouble with its SMETS2 rollout.. the meters are not commissioning..
Average dual fual install has been 4-6HOURS in some cases..
They put a hold on all installations five times last week!!

Anthorn

misterbarlow wrote: »

I know one of the big six are having nothing but trouble with its SMETS2 rollout.. the meters are not commissioning..
Average dual fual install has been 4-6HOURS in some cases..
They put a hold on all installations five times last week!!

Which of the big six? Where did you get the info from? Can you post a link to it?

[Deleted User]

Landys and Gyr are the makers of the most popular SMETS1 meter fitted today. British Gas use them
On their own website , L and G say their meters, the Libra 370 smart gas meter are capable of Over the Air upgrade to SMETS2 spec .Even the older smart gas meter Libra 310 is capable of upgrade to SMETS2 with a module exchange without moving the meter. These are very common smart meters probably the most popular smart gas meter fitted in terms of numbers in the the whole of the UK.
This is not a supplier saying this or a government advert but a manufacturer who would get sued if the facts were untrue
https://snmetswww.landisgyr.eu/product/g370-zigbee-smart-ultrasonic-gas-meter/

BG are also currently fitting the Landys and Gyr E470 electric smart meter. These meters are also "future proof " and can be upgraded over the air from SMETS1 to SMETS2

https://www.landisgyr.eu/product/landisgyr-e470-zigbee-smart-electricity-meter/

EneryMiser

Any New news or updates on the SMETS1 instal end date?