Kleeneze

Choc

Can i ask when you leave your chosen company does this experience dampen your belief in NM or not?

EthanM

brian09tt wrote: »

Is this not "negative" are you not supposed to be there to support your team and fellow agents?
This would be viewed as totally negative and unacceptable in my old group and by Rob himself, why do you not attend meetings?

Can you not stand the "Propaganda" yourself or do you see the same old faces sat in the same seats at the same old levels in the business and find it hard to see any GROWTH in Kleeneze, then you have to talk to new people who have attended and tell them its "A great time to join" or "The business is going from strength to strength":o or the popular one at our meeting "There has never been a better time to be involved in Kleeneze":rotfl:
I have told you my old level and income, may I ask what yours is?
Brian

Brian,

Since you ask I earn at least double the best you ever earnt ie well over £4,000 a month. I jet around the world, 1 month in Tenerife a few months back, another month in Brazil. I answer because your goal was clear as you imagined that you did better than me and wanted to use this to make your point. To answer your other question about why I don't go to meetings, because I only support my wife in her business. I am not a Kleeneze agent. So your comments are completely invalid.

Your right I pick up on certain facts and ignore a lot of others, simply because I don't have the time to waste taking issue with everyone of your claims or comments or checking the figures are even accurate.

I don't need to know all these figures as I know on a much more basic level that if a new person puts out the books in the way suggested by Kleeneze he will build a customer base and can over time be retailing £1000 a month. I know this can be done as I have seen it many times and done it myself. I know you also know this can be done. But hey no need to do £1000, instead you could do £500. Do you admit that £500 can be achieved by anyone that consistantly puts out their books collects and delivers orders in a reasonable time period and has sufficient people skills to not be disliked by the average customer?

You see this is the building block of the Kleeneze business and if this can not be done then I would agree with their being a real problem, but you and I both know it can be done.

Jo_F

Choc wrote: »

Can i ask when you leave your chosen company does this experience dampen your belief in NM or not?

didn't with me, I left Kleeneze because of factors not connected with the business, so no it hasn't turned me against NM, it's just something that I no longer have the time for.

If someone was to ask me about joining Kleeneze, I would simply tell them how I did it (following most of the 'rules'), I would also hightlight the downside (weather, lost cats, horrible people, the hard work needed etc)

I would stress to them that it is a business and not a get rich quick scheme, and that they need to work at it to make it work for them, and that in some cases it doesn't work for some people.

I would advise that if the person wanting to sign them up is pushing, wanting an answer tomorrow (like happened to another poster) that they need to find another sponsor, as they are unlikely to get the support that they need from that person.

I would like to think that I would give them enough of the good and bad points to allow them to make an informed decision as to whether its the thing for them or not.

MothballsWallet

Ethan, I'm only going to quote parts of your post as I don't want to overload MSE with a copy of the whole thing, and I don't have a 10Gbps uplink on my ADSL line.

EthanM wrote: »

Actually they have very clear guidelines which I've used following an incidence of theft and resulted in the thief no longer being a Kleeneze agent. It is also clearly written into the information pack that every new agent gets explaining that they will lose their position if it can be shown that they have stolen books.

Ok, from brian's experience, it appears that his upline did fnck all when he reported something like this, and from Jo's post, it appears that her upline actually did something when she reported her case.

So it seems 50/50 whether an agent's upline will do something when book thefts are reported, but I will admit that this is going on just 2 peoples' experiences.

EthanM wrote: »

But hey you believe what you want, clearly there is no attempt on this thread to establish actual facts.

I don't "believe" anything - I process data, data that I pick up from reading things. I also have my own experiences of dealing with agents for K advertising for new recruits, which I think gives them a bad name.

EthanM

MothballsWallet wrote: »

Ethan, I'm only going to quote parts of your post as I don't want to overload MSE with a copy of the whole thing, and I don't have a 10Gbps uplink on my ADSL line.


Ok, from brian's experience, it appears that his upline did fnck all when he reported something like this, and from Jo's post, it appears that her upline actually did something when she reported her case.

So it seems 50/50 whether an agent's upline will do something when book thefts are reported, but I will admit that this is going on just 2 peoples' experiences.


I don't "believe" anything - I process data, data that I pick up from reading things. I also have my own experiences of dealing with agents for K advertising for new recruits, which I think gives them a bad name.

The original question was as to whether Kleeneze have guidelines on these issues. That is a Yes or No answer. It's not open to interpretation the facts are that they do. That was my answer, it is the correct answer.

brian09tt

I answer because your goal was clear as you imagined that you did better than me and wanted to use this to make your point. To answer your other question about why I don't go to meetings, because I only support my wife in her business. I am not a Kleeneze agent. So your comments are completely invalid Ethanm

NO actually they were both just questions, as yours was and so I am a little alarmed that you choose to be SO defensives, but thank you for the answers anyway.
Well done on your success or your wifes success, which ever the case may be.
In one of your first posts you mention 10 agents in your area now down to 2, your wife being one of them. This shows yes you have done well, but also success depends on other agents failure and the fallout rate is around 80%, so the vast majority can't make it work...no sorry they are ALL lazy and undisciplined, I forgot.
Your second pop, no my point is not invalid, just an observation from the many meetings I attended. If you had been to a few you would know that...just ask the wife.

Your right I pick up on certain facts and ignore a lot of others, simply because I don't have the time to waste taking issue with everyone of your claims or comments or checking the figures are even accurate.

But you seem able to find time to have a pop at people, must be easier than trying to find an excuse or reason for the very sad looking figures associated with Kleeneze now.

Do you admit that £500 can be achieved by anyone that consistantly puts out their books collects and delivers orders in a reasonable time period and has sufficient people skills to not be disliked by the average customer?

And unlike yourself I will find a bit more time to answer a question you think I will shy away from.
Yes I admit £500 of retail is attainable by most people, but hang on that would earn them £105 MAXIMUM per month, So £26 per week then....
DO YOU agree that that would involve dropping at least 500 books if we go on the company average of £1 per book.
Again company average loss of books 10% or 50 = £30 cost
Thats £75 earnings per month not taking away delivery charges of around £5 per week and all the Petrol costs involved.
Not many people stay with it earning less than £20 per week and having to go out in all weathers and using a lot of their family time.
Unless they start sponsoring quickly and find people to do the same they don't last long....this is the main reason I find that people quit.

Brian

EthanM

brian09tt wrote: »

NO actually they were both just questions, as yours was and so I am a little alarmed that you choose to be SO defensives, but thank you for the answers anyway.
Well done on your success or your wifes success, which ever the case may be.
In one of your first posts you mention 10 agents in your area now down to 2, your wife being one of them. This shows yes you have done well, but also success depends on other agents failure and the fallout rate is around 80%, so the vast majority can't make it work...no sorry they are ALL lazy and undisciplined, I forgot.
Your second pop, no my point is not invalid, just an observation from the many meetings I attended. If you had been to a few you would know that...just ask the wife.


But you seem able to find time to have a pop at people, must be easier than trying to find an excuse or reason for the very sad looking figures associated with Kleeneze now.


And unlike yourself I will find a bit more time to answer a question you think I will shy away from.
Yes I admit £500 of retail is attainable by most people, but hang on that would earn them £105 MAXIMUM per month, So £26 per week then....
DO YOU agree that that would involve dropping at least 500 books if we go on the company average of £1 per book.
Again company average loss of books 10% or 50 = £30 cost
Thats £75 earnings per month not taking away delivery charges of around £5 per week and all the Petrol costs involved.
Not many people stay with it earning less than £20 per week and having to go out in all weathers and using a lot of their family time.
Unless they start sponsoring quickly and find people to do the same they don't last long....this is the main reason I find that people quit.

Brian

Hi Brian,

I think that if you go over my posts in this thread you will see I have tried to be more than fair, and my "pops" are a response to a continual ongoing unfair attack on Kleeneze. Even then I tried to be fair and honest and accepted valid critisism, but much of the critisism is complete rubbish. For example GeordieJoe claiming over and over that only friends would buy stuff and then only once or twice. Or that Kleeneze products were 5 times the price of other places. Then you who actually does no better, rather than correcting these "facts" find things to agree with in your eagerness to attack.
I would have been much less likely to have a "pop" if you had at least corrected the wild claims made by some others.
To make things worse some of your own claims have started to go in the same direction.

However lets take your acceptance that £500 retail is achievable by most people. First I'll accept a point of yours that without recruiting and only doing £500 retail the income is not worth it. But networking is about a lot of people doing a little, wouldn't you agree? Now I see you liked working out the income, so here is one for you to work out. Over a period of time our new agent recruits 10 others who in turn do some recruiting but let's say only 5 each. Now some may do more than £500 and some less, equally some may recruit more or less but for ease let's run with these figures and work out an income and see if things begin to look a little better.

MothballsWallet

EthanM wrote: »

The original question was as to whether Kleeneze have guidelines on these issues. That is a Yes or No answer. It's not open to interpretation the facts are that they do. That was my answer, it is the correct answer.

So, your answer was "Yes, they do have guidelines." Sorry, had to get my video and data neuro processors to wade through the novella that was your post.

Having guidelines is not the same as checking that they are followed: my point about Jo's upline following the guidelines when she logged her complaint and Brian's upline doing the "3 wise monkeys" when he logged his complaint shows a limited picture of the attitude the K uplines can take when a complaint is made.

They may get more false complaints than genuine ones, but a complaint should still be followed up to determine whether it is genuine or fake. And, if genuine, something should be done, and K head office should know what is going on with their own agents/distributors.

sarahriches1983

ok then...iv not done a lengthy post on this thread (mainly due to having a very active nearly 2 year old son running round my feet!) so here goes.

Kleeneze is a blag......the way they earn their money is from the following:

£75 joining up fee

What they dont tell you is that you then have to sign up to their MLM messenging service with is a load of bull and MANDATORY (i cancelled the direct debit - Sarah 1 - Kleeneze 0)

Then you've also got the £7.50 a month charge for the internet ordering system.

Then you have to pay for the goods to be delivered to you unless you place an order above £250.

Then of course everytime all you !!!!!!! books get robbed they take the absolute effing liberty of charging you £30 for another 50 catalogues.


So....(and this is a question mainly directed at Ethan M) who are Kleenze making more money out of? The distributors or the customers?

And before you answer...hear out the rest of my thread...

The 'upline' are nothing but vultures...

After answering an ad on gumtree promising me up to £500 a week i got the whole Kleeneze spiel...you know that BS disk they send out to get people to join up? Yeah well i had a conversation with them...told them basically i didnt have £75 to spare...the whole reason for me being on gumtree was looking for cleaning/ironing jobs to put food in my sons belly but still, plus the fact that id have to borrow the money from someone to join - they had no qualms about taking my £75 off me, not telling me about the hidden costs iv already mentioned OR the fact that to earn any decent money in this "business" you'd have to sign people under you.

I decided as soon as i found out all these details that there was NO EFFING WAY i was gonna be getting anyone else to join this BLAG of a company.
Quite simply because the only way id get people to join is because id be being 'economical with the truth' and because id never do to someone else what the vultures had done to me.

Im desperate for money and these W*NK*RS have taken money from me without telling me the whole truth.

(Just to confirm,iv actually cut my losses with Kleeneze, iv spent out more money than iv earnt and im doing soooo much better with Betterware where iv had no outlaying costs at all, a great team leader and, believe it or not more orders)

In fact...That takes me onto another comment i read earlier.

YES, you can buy Kleeneze products much cheaper elsewhere...In the bloody £ shop!!!!!

My parting comment is..

DONT TOUCH KLEENEZE WITH A BARGE POLE...THEY ARE VULTURES WHO PRAY ON PEOPLE HARD UP FOR CASH AS DISTRIBUTORS AND THE INFIRM AND ELDERLY WITH THEIR PRODUCTS.

Noname29

EthanM wrote: »

Hi Brian,

However lets take your acceptance that £500 retail is achievable by most people. First I'll accept a point of yours that without recruiting and only doing £500 retail the income is not worth it. But networking is about a lot of people doing a little, wouldn't you agree? Now I see you liked working out the income, so here is one for you to work out. Over a period of time our new agent recruits 10 others who in turn do some recruiting but let's say only 5 each. Now some may do more than £500 and some less, equally some may recruit more or less but for ease let's run with these figures and work out an income and see if things begin to look a little better.

Ok here we go.
We have established that there is an 80% failure rate ( you confirmed this)
So, of the 10 you recruit 8 will leave, left with 2 who will recruit 1.
these are your figures.
On the basis that each person does £500 then you earn £205 in the 4 week period.
better than £105 certainly.
But how much does it cost to recruit the 10 ??
A couple of adverts, some info packs, DVD's , meetings etc and you soon eat into the vast £205 and that is how some people say that Kze cost them money.
To get 10 recruits to stick you need to sign in 50 ( your figures) and how much would that cost.

This is what really !!!!es me off about Kze distributors. They can never see the light and tell the true story. They paint such a 'glib' story that looks and smells of SH.t. And if thats the case then it probably is.

Just to finish, you can earn a decent second income if you retail hard but if recruiting everyone has to be ethical.