Kleeneze

EthanM

brian09tt wrote: »

My best Cheque was just over £2000 which I am sure you can imagine We were delighted with, however 3 of our key people quit and I will add ALL 3 of them worked bloody hard trying to build the business and followed the "system" to the letter.(on top of another 11 who came and didn't do much with it)
it is a constant battle from start to finish, I love the idea, but I honestly feel that its time has come and gone.
In the first couple of years I found it far far easier to sponsor and keep new people, where as now it is near impossible to build and expect the people you already have in to stay for any lenght of time. I got people involved in Rob Forsters seminars and the local Opp meetings, but there is only so much knock backs that people can cope with, even Mr Forster struggles trying to keep people in, even with his huge income and patter.
I personally know of 6 GOLD distributors that have quit, which explains why the number of GOLD and above quoted on the bulk sales never changes, even though more than a 100 Gold Distributors break every year....another 100 quit or fail to keep Gold status.
by the way one of my last COIs was down to £400....a hell of a drop from £2000...when you consider I was doing as much work in both cases!!

Thanks for your insight. I agree a drop in earnings from £2000 a month to £400 is a huge one. So why do you think it's harder to recruit and keep people now. I've personally not noticed this and logically would anticipate in hard economic times things would get easier on the recruiting side. Of course sometimes methods need updating as what worked well 5 years ago may not work so well now.

Cheers

Ethan

Jo_F

I did Kleeneze for about 2 and half years, I had to give up due to personal reasons and nothing to do with the business itself.

I don't have many in the way of family and friends where I am, in fact the only family customer that I had was my Grandma.

I went around my neighbourhood dropping books at every house, those that said no thanks, I crossed of my list, and dropped that book somewhere else.

I went back to collect my first 150 books, and had taken orders of approximately £300, all from strangers, people that I had never seen in the flesh before, yes my next door neighbour ordered, not sure of her reasons why, maybe because she needed the item that she ordered.

As people told me they didn't want the books, or if I had gotten the books back from a particular house 2 times not even looked at, those people went on my 'do not call' list.

As I 'lost' more houses from the list, I spread out even further, eventually covering 5 different drop areas, each approximately 150 per drop, and I worked on a 5 week cycle.

Every 6 months or so, I did another blanket drop, I missed out the ones that had plainly said no more, but delivered to the people that had given the books back unread previously, doing this meant I picked up even more new customers.

I had customers that ordered every 5 weeks, I had some that only ordered every few months, but put a big order in when they did order.

when shopping in town I was sometimes asked for a book, and some of my customers told me of people outside of where I went that wanted catalogues.

During the run up to Christmas (which starts in September) I was putting extra order forms in the packs, I had quite a few customers that filled the extra forms in, and specified when they wanted each order, this spread the cost out for them.

A lot of my customers were upset when I finished, they all told me that out of all the distributors that had been in the area at one time or another, I was the one that went back when I said I would, delivered when they wanted it delivering and various other things that had made my customer service stand out.

By the time I finished, I had approximately 450 customers, these were people that lived in housing association houses, brand new over priced new builds, people in work, out of work, with children, elderly people, young families, basically all genres of people, including local councillors and the mayor of the town.

Jo_F

Oh, and my upline never pushed me to recruit, I did give it a try, but it wasn't something that I was all that interested in.

I was tld that if I wanted to go into recruiting, then the help and support was there, but they just mainly supported me in my retailing.

brian09tt

Question for one of the people that did Kleeneze with some success, especially Brian.

Do total strangers that recieve Kleeneze books through their door order?
Yes all the time, about 1 in 10-15 on blanket drops

If they do order, do they only order once or twice or do you actually get customers that go on to order on a regular basis over a lengthy peroid of time?
Some just order 1 or 2 times about 50% go on to be regular customers

Thanks for your insight. I agree a drop in earnings from £2000 a month to £400 is a huge one. So why do you think it's harder to recruit and keep people now. I've personally not noticed this and logically would anticipate in hard economic times things would get easier on the recruiting side. Of course sometimes methods need updating as what worked well 5 years ago may not work so well now.
I honestly think it all boils down to the numbers game that as started to work against itself now after years of sponsoring, its no secret and even shows on the Kleeneze reports, that about 20-25,000 distributors come and go on a yearly basis and yet still the numbers are in decline overall since about 2004.
Down from about 17,000 to now about 11,000 and only about 6,000 active according to Gavin Scott( the man at the top of the network)
With that number of Distributor turnover , there has to come a time that a lot of people have either tried or knows somebody that has tried Kleeneze at some time....as the saying goes a happy customer(or in this case Distributor) will tell 1 or 2 people where as an unhappy one will tell everybody who is willing to listen, maybe as many as 10 or 20+.
So 20,000+ Distributors a year times quite a few years all quiting and having bad experiences telling 20 or so people the word spreads like wildfire.
Mr forster says on avarage you will only sign 1 in 50 people into Kleeneze, that 1 in 50 seems to becoming 1 in 100 and when you do get them in only about i in 10 do any real work.
There seems to be a lot trying it at the moment as you say due to the tough times but again very few seem to be getting any real success, this may just add fuel to the fire and accelerate the process in the long run.

brian09tt

catrin.williams7
"This comment made me smile, to think that all my sponsor banged on about was her dream to be a 'gold' distributor and then she, and in turn us, would have really 'made' it. It just shows how mistaken she was, and probably still is. Can I ask what happened to your business for you to lose your Gold distributorship and leave K?"

It was endless, trying to get people in and keep them in which got harder and harder. I was also told that Gold was the place to be, I lost a lot of sleep and hair when I got there.
Just as you find a few good switched on people they seem to quit for all the same reasons as the last good ones.
Unable to build their Team and keep it...
Constant grief about agents stealing books telling customers have quit...
No real earning from the catalogue because they may have a job and their spare time is being eaten up for very little rewards...
Constant negative from their family and friends...
Seeing very little growth from other agents or even Kleeneze itself knocked their future vision....
The list is endless Im afraid.
then just as you start to sort the retail side out, a few new Distributors would drift in and you would spend the next couple of weeks trying to explain to people why they had 3 or 4 of the same Kleeneze catalogues that week.

.probably sounds familiar I bet.

Brian

geordie_joe

EthanM wrote: »

Look some of the people currently critisising Kleeneze at least know what they are talking about, you clearly do not.

Having been an agent I believe I do know what I am talking about.

EthanM wrote: »

You like to keep making this claim that only friends and colleagues will buy from Kleeneze and even then only a couple of times.

I don't "keep" making this this claim. However, it is true, once you have s=old to those people and they are sick then it is difficult to find strangers who will buy. I'm not saying they don't buy, just that they don't buy enough to make it worth while.

EthanM wrote: »

I think you were prepared to bet £10,000 that this was true.

Yes, another K agent claimed he could prove strangers bought from Kleeneze regularly for years. But then he pulled the old schoolboy trick of turning it into a bet and putting the stake so high that I wouldn't be able to put my money on the table and would therefore have to decline the bet. He was thinking he could then say "See, you won't accept the bet because you know you are wrong".

But when I said I would accept the bet and didn't back down he disappeared.

EthanM wrote: »

Ok well we have a couple of people in the last few posts that are against Kleeneze but as I said actually do know what they are talking about, so lets ask them.

Question for one of the people that did Kleeneze with some success, especially Brian.

Do total strangers that recieve Kleeneze books through their door order?

If they do order, do they only order once or twice or do you actually get customers that go on to order on a regular basis over a lengthy peroid of time?

Will you accept an answer from him GeordieJoe?

Again, I have always said that the few people who do buy only do it once or twice, then get wise.

EthanM wrote: »

By the way the catalogues are available online and have been for a long time, though GeordieJoe I wouldn't expect you to know that, even though you seem to have becone a self appointed expert on the subject of the Kleeneze business.

You can be an expert without wasting your time on the Kleeneze web site. But just for you let's go and look at it.

Cat No 088722-22 All purpose descaler £5.00 for 500ml (£10 per litre)
Cat No 088617-22 Eezee laminate floor cleaner £6.00 for 500ml (£12 per litre)
Cat No 050610-22 Window cleaner with vinegar £4.00 for 500ml (£8 per litre)

I don't buy many cleaning products, well not commercial ones anyway. But to me those seem way over priced.

EthanM

geordie_joe wrote: »

Having been an agent I believe I do know what I am talking about.



I don't "keep" making this this claim. However, it is true, once you have s=old to those people and they are sick then it is difficult to find strangers who will buy. I'm not saying they don't buy, just that they don't buy enough to make it worth while.

I very much doubt you have been an agent or if you have for a very short time as you would know that what your saying is totally wrong. If you doubt this just read the few posts above from real Ex Kleeneze agents that are not pro Kleeneze but telling it as it really is. They both tell the facts about orders which completely contradict your claims. My own experience matches theirs.

In regards to your point about me disappearing again another false statement, the truth is the thread was locked immediately after your post. You seem to delight in twisting the truth.

Finally in regards to your harking on about the price, it is copletely irrelavant the question is whether the products sell and they do, see earlier point.

EthanM

brian09tt wrote: »

I honestly think it all boils down to the numbers game that as started to work against itself now after years of sponsoring, its no secret and even shows on the Kleeneze reports, that about 20-25,000 distributors come and go on a yearly basis and yet still the numbers are in decline overall since about 2004.
Down from about 17,000 to now about 11,000 and only about 6,000 active according to Gavin Scott( the man at the top of the network)
With that number of Distributor turnover , there has to come a time that a lot of people have either tried or knows somebody that has tried Kleeneze at some time....as the saying goes a happy customer(or in this case Distributor) will tell 1 or 2 people where as an unhappy one will tell everybody who is willing to listen, maybe as many as 10 or 20+.
So 20,000+ Distributors a year times quite a few years all quiting and having bad experiences telling 20 or so people the word spreads like wildfire.
Mr forster says on avarage you will only sign 1 in 50 people into Kleeneze, that 1 in 50 seems to becoming 1 in 100 and when you do get them in only about i in 10 do any real work.
There seems to be a lot trying it at the moment as you say due to the tough times but again very few seem to be getting any real success, this may just add fuel to the fire and accelerate the process in the long run.

I think you have a point about bigger numbers of people hearing a negative story. As you say many join and do not work the system at all, in many cases not even bothering to collect books they have delivered, they fail pretty quick and then tell people it doesn't work. Do you think more care should be taken in recruiting the right people and in explaining the business in a more frank way to reduce false expectations?

brian09tt

I think you have a point about bigger numbers of people hearing a negative story. As you say many join and do not work the system at all, in many cases not even bothering to collect books they have delivered, they fail pretty quick and then tell people it doesn't work. Do you think more care should be taken in recruiting the right people and in explaining the business in a more frank way to reduce false expectations?

YES I definitely do, however most of the people I met including my sponsor and also Rob Forster himself who has apparently pioneered this system that everybody tries to duplicate and are taught at EVERY meeting to do so, say you must just
“throw people into the system, like a funnel…a lot will drop out so you just have to work with the people that STICK”
You then
“plug them into the system”
where they are taught to do the same themselves……along the way a lot of Distributors crash and burn, but scandalously this is totally acceptable because after all
“It’s a numbers game”

People were treated like pawns in a chess game, after all the boys at the top will not be affected by 10 or even 100 dropping out…they just hope to find the good ones and sod the rest…it was the total lack of respect for people trying dammed hard and yet not having any real success that I found appalling and hardest to stomach in the end, they were treated like failures and compared to somebody who had been in the same length of time and yet had been more successful…
When you talk to some of “The successful people” they admit they had been fortunate to find some focused people quickly and in a lot of the cases they had done less work than the people who were struggling.

EthanM

Jo_F wrote: »

Oh, and my upline never pushed me to recruit, I did give it a try, but it wasn't something that I was all that interested in.

I was tld that if I wanted to go into recruiting, then the help and support was there, but they just mainly supported me in my retailing.

Yeah this backs up my point to Katrin, she was pressured by her upline which had a very negative effect on her. The point I made was that it depended very much on the team around you and especially your upline. Maybe she would have faired better with your upline.

Thanks for your helpful posts.