Kleeneze

EthanM

catrin.williams7 wrote: »

Hello everyone again,

I have just read through the whole thread this morning- having some personal intrest in the subject! A few things did ring really true with me from my personal experience:
1) The focus on building a team:
My partner and I initially joined just to distribute catalogues and make some more money. However, before we knew it we were being invited to meetings/ motivational messages etc fiercely encouraging us to sponsor others. This eventually led to us feeling quite isolated- it seemed that because we didn't want to recruit others we were somehow not ambitious or hardworking- a fact that is not true!
2) The focus on meetings, 'Kleeneze' philosophy.
Can really identify with this. It got to the point where my sponsor would come to my house to pick me up for meetings, which were invariably had, at best, a brainwashing 'tone' with lots of motivational DVDs/talks/ books etc etc!However, probably worth remembering that lots of companies do this kind of thing, not just Kleeneze, and some people find it really useful.
3) The 'If you work hard you'll make it philosophy'
Undoubtedly for some the reason Kleeneze doesn't work is because people quit to fast/ don't work hard enough at it- I met many!BUT-my partner and I absoloutlely crucified ourselves in order to try and make our Kleeneze business work. To the point that it nearly cost us our seven year, and prior to that, very stable relationship. This is something that I found utterly soul destroying. I also lost friendships etc by lack of time/ encouragement by my sponser that they weren't my real friends because they wouldn't join Kleeneze. So to be honest I find it utterly irritating that some people are on this thread saying 'Kleeneze will ALWAYS work if you work hard enough, you need to work harder'- not true we sacrificed everything we possibly could have done to make K work, and it still didn't.
4) Your Kleeneze 'friends'
Someone says earlier in the thread that they lost all their so called K 'friends' as soon as they left, again something that happened to us. Prior to quitting we were seeing our sponsor and team at least 3x/week and, as you can imagine, over 6 months we became quite close. Yet, once my partner and I had decided to leave I received a very rude/abusive phone call from my sponsor basically telling me that I hadn't worked hard enough at it and I expected everything to be handed on a plate in life- considering I was on the verge of a breakdown at this point I found this absoloutely unbelievable.

However, having said all that- it does work for some and some people really enjoy it and believe in the philosphy/idea and good for them. We are all only trying to improve our quality of life after all. But- in my area K reps seem to be repeatedly having a similar sort of experience to me-so just something to bear in mind!I'm not trying to be rude to anyone/slag anyone's ideas or life off- so please don't be rude to me! I am only relaying my personal experience of K.

Thanks!

I'm so sorry to hear of your experience, unfortunately sounds like you joined a team that clearly was not suited to your goals. Many people in our team only do the retail side of the business and there is no pressure to recruit. It is true as you know that much more money can be made if you do both but there is no way you should get pressure to do so. It is your business and it's no wonder you felt isolated and ultimately gave up.

Full credit to you that your able to give such a balanced review.

EthanM

catrin.williams7 wrote: »

with respect to the previous comment and Kleeneze reps ignoring door to door saleman signs- when I was a rep (oh happy days!) we were continally told to ignore them and that we were not 'door to door salesman', and to be honest, because I am young and naive I used to buy into that. But thinking about it your right, it is just another form of cold calling. It does also target the eldely/lonely and housebound. In fact we were actively told to go to areas which were densely populated with old people as they were more likely to buy! I am a nice person, and thinking back it makes me feel quite uncomfortable how 'brainwashed' or influenced I was by their way of thinking.

As someone who spent many years in Sales I can assure you that pushing a book through someones door and then collecting it from the doorstep is not a sales job. To be a Salesperson by definition means that you need to "sell" a kleeneze representative doesn't sell any more than the postman that puts all kind all sales brochures through your door. That's why it's possible to have Kleeneze agents that do not even speak English ( some of whom are quite successful ) because they do not sell.

For those that have such a major issue with getting a catalogue through the door, I suggest they put up a sign not saying "No door to door sales people" but rather no Kleeneze, Betterware etc. Since Kleeneze agents pay for their books I can assure you they never put books through doors that they know will not be wanted.

brian09tt

The idea of sponsoring ten people, who in turn each sponsor ten people, very quickly leads to saturation of the market.
Probably why agent numbers and turnover drop year on year since 2004(check the EWBs if you don't believe me)
A traditional business will be careful to match its sales staff to the market otherwise they will have over employed people to sell to a market that isn't there( anybody got loads of agents in the same area??)
Kleeneze very quickly saturate their potential market. The problem is that because new members to the scheme pay to join, and continue to buy laods of catalogues at hiked up prices there is always a plentiful supply of money flowing into the company. This money is not just raised by product sales, but by robbing their agents on a monthly basis.
Recouping this money will not be easy in a saturated market. The rules of supply and demand are a real factor in business. They are completely ignored by Kleeneze as the company makes money from recruiting new members whether they sell any products or not.

brian09tt

The most disturbing issue regarding Kleeneze is the impact it has on personal relationships. The premise is that as the products and the "opportunity" is so good that we should share it with our friends and family ASAP i.e. before you learn the truth!!
What happens in reality is that your friends and family become "prospects": people to sell to; and mainly potential members for your downline. You may receive help, in the form of orders, from those who wish to help you start your new venture at first; however, overwhelming pressure to buy, to join Kleeneze and the constant one-track conversations about the scheme will quickly alienate you from other people.
You can quickly become a bore, then someone to be avoided at all costs!(got that T-shirt, my friends and family are only just accepting the fact that I was brainwashed myself)
This damaging effect on relationships extends to wherever you decide to operate. If you are a member of a church, community centre, golf club, etc , you run the risk of alienating those around you and losing friends and of course your personal credibility.
If in your early enthusiasm you manage to sign up some friends and family to your downline, you may not be very popular once they realise that the wonderful scheme that you got them into has ended up costing them money. Relationships, whether formal or informal, that were based on trust, and sometimes may never be rebuilt.

brian09tt

Anybody else been to one of Rob Forster's Seminars Yet?? I have been to 2 !!

One feature of Kleeneze is the use of "inspirational seminars". Meetings where members get together in a positive, motivational atmosphere, and are given propaganda and encouragement to continue with their "business"
One key feature is that you are reminded that the system works and has been tried and tested and that you should not try to do things their own way otherwise they will fail.YOUR FAULT AGAIN !!
They are told that one quality of a successful Kleeneze distributor is that they are "teachable". Members should listen to what they are told and follow instructions.i.e.Remove brain and act like lemmings
This includes following the system, but more disturbingly, it includes instructions such as: not listening to negativity; ignoring the concerns of others; letting any ridicule go above their head; and only focusing on and staying committed to their cause. "Enthusiasm" is the buzzword.
This is the main reason that people get so alienated by those around them. Concerns and objections by friends, family and colleagues are dismissed because they are too negative to see the opportunity.
Talking Kleeneze up is also a must. No matter how badly you're doing you must always talk in a positive light. I know agents whos turnover is plummiting in the bulk sales but Things are always going very well indeed and joining the scheme is the best thing they have ever done....Please wake up and listen to your friends who have your best interests at heart
It is extremely unusual to hear someone admit that they are struggling to sell products and that they are disillusioned with the scheme.Does all this sound familiar??
If the word "gullible" is used in place of "teachable" then a true picture of what is really going on emerges.

Kleeneze is selling false hope. They promise the opportunity of great wealth, freedom, and independence from the rat race, If YOU work hard..if it doesn't happen then obviously you must have been lazy like the other 97% who quit...NOT KLEENEZE FAULT THEN EH ?
In reality Kleeneze is nothing more than glorified "get rich quick" scheme that will cost you money, time, credibility and even your self-esteem...BEWARE !!!

brian09tt

I was asked by one of the girls working at Tankersley Manor where Rob Forster used to run his seminars how much we all paid to be there and laughed when I told her £10 because when you times that by 300 - 400 he earns up to £4000 and she told me that was well over double the price of the room he had hired....so that made his earnings £500- £750 an hour for the 3 or 4 hours he speaks.Glad I only went to 2...he has enough money without taking mine.

Thats more than 99% of the people who attend earn from Kleeneze in the first place...no wonder he was so jolly at the seminar...so would I be !!

NUFCnutter

brian09tt wrote: »

Anybody else been to one of Rob Forster's Seminars Yet?? I have been to 2 !!

One feature of Kleeneze is the use of "inspirational seminars". Meetings where members get together in a positive, motivational atmosphere, and are given propaganda and encouragement to continue with their "business"
One key feature is that you are reminded that the system works and has been tried and tested and that you should not try to do things their own way otherwise they will fail.YOUR FAULT AGAIN !! Yup its never the upline at fault for not helping or supporting you more. Its never the pyramid scheme and saturation to blame.
They are told that one quality of a successful Kleeneze distributor is that they are "teachable". Members should listen to what they are told and follow instructions.i.e.Remove brain and act like lemmings. And never question. Whatever you do never question the system, like the Jehovah's Witnesses you need to blindly follow.
This includes following the system, but more disturbingly, it includes instructions such as: not listening to negativity; ignoring the concerns of others; letting any ridicule go above their head; and only focusing on and staying committed to their cause. "Enthusiasm" is the buzzword. Forget about any life you had before too. Your social life soon becomes one filled with other Kleeneze people. You try and bring your friends and family in, and are told not to listen to their negative comments when they see you are working like a trojan for next to nothing.
This is the main reason that people get so alienated by those around them. Concerns and objections by friends, family and colleagues are dismissed because they are too negative to see the opportunity.
Talking Kleeneze up is also a must. No matter how badly you're doing you must always talk in a positive light. I know agents whos turnover is plummiting in the bulk sales but Things are always going very well indeed and joining the scheme is the best thing they have ever done....Please wake up and listen to your friends who have your best interests at heart
It is extremely unusual to hear someone admit that they are struggling to sell products and that they are disillusioned with the scheme.Does all this sound familiar??
If the word "gullible" is used in place of "teachable" then a true picture of what is really going on emerges.

Kleeneze is selling false hope. They promise the opportunity of great wealth, freedom, and independence from the rat race, If YOU work hard..if it doesn't happen then obviously you must have been lazy like the other 97% who quit...NOT KLEENEZE FAULT THEN EH ?
In reality Kleeneze is nothing more than glorified "get rich quick" scheme that will cost you money, time, credibility and even your self-esteem...BEWARE !!!

It is a glorified pyramid scheme, you work your ears off, dropping off shed loads of pre-paid for catalogues for a measly return, as most people will go off to Poundstretcher and Wilkinson's and get it for a lot cheaper (nutter time: Don't buy from the catalogues, its cheaper at these shops :rotfl: ). You get paid your little bit, your sponsor gets paid a % for that, their sponsor gets paid a % for that. If you don't get people in under you very quickly your sponsor will move on to someone who is getting more people in.

I tried for 2 years to get Kleeneze to work and in 2 years I was cataloguing every night that I wasn't at meetings, I was trying to get people to sign up under me (because of pressure from my sponsor), and I was paying to drive to "motivational meetings and seminars" held by the local big boys who had managed to get in early and were earning squillions. I worked damn hard but got nowhere and my tax returns were showing losses, plus I was working full time too.

If you speak to the Rob Foster's of this pyramid scheme then you will find that they have been in there for years and years. They were lucky to get in when they did. Their pyramid oops sorry marketing has many, many levels to it. So it doesn't matter if you come in and make a couple of quid for a couple of months then drop out, because there is always someone more gullible waiting round the corner to line their pockets. You are just an nameless drone at the bottom of his pyramid.

catrin.williams7

EthanM wrote: »

I'm so sorry to hear of your experience, unfortunately sounds like you joined a team that clearly was not suited to your goals. Many people in our team only do the retail side of the business and there is no pressure to recruit. It is true as you know that much more money can be made if you do both but there is no way you should get pressure to do so. It is your business and it's no wonder you felt isolated and ultimately gave up.

Full credit to you that your able to give such a balanced review.

Hi EthanM,

I just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful comments, despite the fact that we may have very different opinions regarding the philosophy/success of Kleeneze. It just proves that not everyone can be tarred with the same brush, even K agents!:rotfl:

Good Luck in your business, I hope it works better for you than it did for me! Thanks also for the tip about leaving clear signs out- I will try this next time a new K distributor starts in my area.

Good Luck and thanks again.:beer:

MothballsWallet

A little tip about Findel (assuming there is only one company of that name): they also bought some companies in the education supply sector. Does anyone else think they're perhaps using those companies to bolster up their profit margins if Kleeneze is starting to decline?

brian09tt

How long are Findel going to hold on to the loss making Kleeneze, they have been dragging the company down since purchase even though they as much as closed European expansion and have asset stripped Kleenezes premises and staff and merging the operation in with theirs in Accrington.
They never wanted Kleeneze in the first place and bid to acquire the “Kit-Bag business” attached to Kleeneze and “I Want One Of Those”, the sale of the Bristol premises etc must have evened up the books a great deal….even at the first Kleeneze conference Patrick Jolly admitted this, but was willing to give Kleeneze a chance.

With the way their shares are dipping and the current economical climate, the axe will have to drop somewhere soon!


21st March 2007 £7.83p

02 July 2008 £1.46p