Kleeneze

EthanM

NUF!!!!ter wrote: »

It is a glorified pyramid scheme.....
If you speak to the Rob Foster's of this pyramid scheme then you will find that they have been in there for years and years.....Their pyramid oops sorry marketing has many, many levels to it........ because there is always someone more gullible waiting round the corner to line their pockets. You are just an nameless drone at the bottom of his pyramid.

There are quite a lot of inflammatory and negative posts about Kleeneze and I am not prepared to waste too much time responding.
However this kind of claim annoys me as it is so crass. Either the writer is ignorant in which case should not be writing on the subject or he is purposely mis-leading people.
Pyramid schemes are illegal and are rapidly shut down when they appear, Kleeneze is not a Pyramid scheme. If it were it would have been closed many many years ago.
It's a shame people who are bitter about their inability to succeed at something and want to blame something or someone other than them selves don't look a little closer at themselves.

When I was in direct Sales, most people that joined failed at it, many of them blaming the product, the price, the delivery times everything but themselves.

Most people with dreams of becoming a footballer never make it and a huge number of people that start their own business fail. The ones that actually take responsibility and look at themselves are the people that usually eventually make a successs.

I'm sure the same ones that point the finger at Kleeneze for their failure will now rail at me, that's the way they work.

brian09tt

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]This is how the stock market viewed it back in 2006 and very little has changed since.[/FONT]
I along with countless people I know have worked bloody hard for over 3 and half years in my case to keep it afloat and as soon as you take your foot off the gas its back to square one in no time.
I am not saying its a pyramid just an out of date dying system and the facts back that up unfortunately, as I along with many others put my heart and soul into it and went past Gold and above , just to see it crumble away, sad but true.
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]FINDEL BUYS KLEENEZE AND COBOUCHON AFTER BANKRUPTCY

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]8 Nov 2006 [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]- European Home Retail, the London Stock Exchange Company, that was the parent of British MLM Company Kleeneze, had to call in the receivers after their Farepak subsidiary left Euro Home Retail broke. Kleeneze MLM with flat sales the last few years, has sold to Findel, the home shopping conglomerate based in Lancashire, UK. Findel also bought Cabouchon, and other companies in the fire sale bundle as Kleeneze. The officers of Findel are working hard to convince distributors that Kleeneze and Cabouchon have a good future, but no money has been put up for improving marketing efforts or commissions of either company.
[/FONT]

catrin.williams7

EthanM wrote: »

There are quite a lot of inflammatory and negative posts about Kleeneze and I am not prepared to waste too much time responding.
However this kind of claim annoys me as it is so crass. Either the writer is ignorant in which case should not be writing on the subject or he is purposely mis-leading people.
Pyramid schemes are illegal and are rapidly shut down when they appear, Kleeneze is not a Pyramid scheme. If it were it would have been closed many many years ago.
It's a shame people who are bitter about their inability to succeed at something and want to blame something or someone other than them selves don't look a little closer at themselves.

When I was in direct Sales, most people that joined failed at it, many of them blaming the product, the price, the delivery times everything but themselves.

Most people with dreams of becoming a footballer never make it and a huge number of people that start their own business fail. The ones that actually take responsibility and look at themselves are the people that usually eventually make a successs.

I'm sure the same ones that point the finger at Kleeneze for their failure will now rail at me, that's the way they work.

I have to say that this comment does anger me. It is again endorsing the K philosophy that if the business doesn't work it is somehow YOUR fault, and your inability to work hard, and K remains UTTERLY blameless. I' m sorry but this is just simply not true, whilst many people fail through lack of effort and hardwork some people sacrifice nearly EVERYTHING they have and it still doesn't work.If you are working in an area where people do not have much disposable income and are used to a different K rep every 4 weeks, who usually don't collect their catalogues, then I imagine even the best salesman would find that situation basically impossible to make a decent income from in terms of the time they would have to invest.

I know that the comment that will now come back to me is that K is a 'business' and you have to work hard at a business, and this is totally right. However, very rarely is the K campaign marketed as a 'business', it is marketed as part time work, and 'extra income' to quote the car signs. Maybe if the sponsors sold it as a business, rather than as something you can do with a minimum of 6 hrs per week ( I never met anyone who could by the way) they would have more suitable distributors in the first place.

I know in my personal experience I gave it everything, lost friends, nearly lost my marriage and my sanity. Despite the fact that before and after K I am fine. There are many possible reasons for this, as I have already said in a previous post, however, one of the major reasons is that K endorses this policy of constantly work harder, if it doesn't work it's your fault, which nearly pushed me to the point of a bloody breakdown, even when it was obviously to everyone else that the idea is flawed.

Finally, any business that has as high a turnover of staff as K has got some sort of problems somewhere down the line. People wouldn't leave otherwise, and they would work as hard as the company wanted them to, as ultimately they would feel happy and valued by the company they worked for. Somethine which obviously many K distributors don't. Even at the meetings I used to go to frequently at least 50% of my sponsors time was spent 're-convincing' people about K, if you are all so happy all the time why would she need to do this?And it wasn't just my team either, I know it went on in many teams.

Thanks!:T

catrin.williams7

I am not saying its a pyramid just an out of date dying system and the facts back that up unfortunately, as I along with many others put my heart and soul into it and went past Gold and above , just to see it crumble away, sad but true.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]FINDEL BUYS KLEENEZE AND COBOUCHON AFTER BANKRUPTCY[/FONT]

This comment made me smile, to think that all my sponsor banged on about was her dream to be a 'gold' distributor and then she, and in turn us, would have really 'made' it. It just shows how mistaken she was, and probably still is. Can I ask what happened to your business for you to lose your Gold distributorship and leave K?

EthanM

catrin.williams7 wrote: »

I have to say that this comment does anger me. It is again endorsing the K philosophy that if the business doesn't work it is somehow YOUR fault, and your inability to work hard, and K remains UTTERLY blameless. I' m sorry but this is just simply not true, whilst many people fail through lack of effort and hardwork some people sacrifice nearly EVERYTHING they have and it still doesn't work.If you are working in an area where people do not have much disposable income and are used to a different K rep every 4 weeks, who usually don't collect their catalogues, then I imagine even the best salesman would find that situation basically impossible to make a decent income from in terms of the time they would have to invest.

I know that the comment that will now come back to me is that K is a 'business' and you have to work hard at a business, and this is totally right. However, very rarely is the K campaign marketed as a 'business', it is marketed as part time work, and 'extra income' to quote the car signs. Maybe if the sponsors sold it as a business, rather than as something you can do with a minimum of 6 hrs per week ( I never met anyone who could by the way) they would have more suitable distributors in the first place.

I know in my personal experience I gave it everything, lost friends, nearly lost my marriage and my sanity. Despite the fact that before and after K I am fine. There are many possible reasons for this, as I have already said in a previous post, however, one of the major reasons is that K endorses this policy of constantly work harder, if it doesn't work it's your fault, which nearly pushed me to the point of a bloody breakdown, even when it was obviously to everyone else that the idea is flawed.

Finally, any business that has as high a turnover of staff as K has got some sort of problems somewhere down the line. People wouldn't leave otherwise, and they would work as hard as the company wanted them to, as ultimately they would feel happy and valued by the company they worked for. Somethine which obviously many K distributors don't. Even at the meetings I used to go to frequently at least 50% of my sponsors time was spent 're-convincing' people about K, if you are all so happy all the time why would she need to do this?And it wasn't just my team either, I know it went on in many teams.

Thanks!:T

Hi Katrin,

I can understand why my comments might anger you and too be honest they are not really aimed at you. It sounds like you had a tough time.
However my comments stand.

Let me ask you a question. If you take a successful franchise like Mcdonalds or SubWay do you accept that the system works? I ask because not everyone that takes up successful franchises is successful with it.

I have no idea why your business didn't work and it may not be your fault, there are other factors such as the team you were part of especially your immediate upline. In my own area immediately around where I live we had 10 yes 10 Kleeneze agents dropping books when we started. Now there are just 2 and my wifes persistence has paid off.
We have a great upline who made sure we never needed to pay for anything and I guess if that hadn't been the case my wife would have given up, with such a lousy area. The Kleeneze system definitely works, however there are many factors which contribute to making this easier or harder.
Still the biggest factor is the individual that joins, whether they have the nexxessary, motivation and skill sets.
I take your point about it being a business and that is certainly the way I present it to people. Too many people are recruited that are clearly either unsuitable or have had the opportunity mis-represented to them. When some people are attempting to sell something, they are apt to hide some things and exaggerate others, it's a sad fact of human behaviour. It also is a major factor in people joining and leaving again in a short space of time. Better in my opinion to be honest and spend a lot less time dealing with the problems that results from the dis-enchanted people recruited with misrepresentation.

I'm really glad that things have worked out for you now.

Kind regards

Ethan

EthanM

brian09tt wrote: »

I am not saying its a pyramid just an out of date dying system and the facts back that up unfortunately, as I along with many others put my heart and soul into it and went past Gold and above , just to see it crumble away, sad but true.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]

I'm very glad to hear that you accept that it is not a pyramid.

I too am curious. People are still buying product from the catalogues, so I'm guessing that you had one or more key people that left which had a negative effect on your business?

What were you earning at your peak from Kleeneze?

Noname29

EthanM wrote: »

I'm very glad to hear that you accept that it is not a pyramid.

I too am curious. People are still buying product from the catalogues, so I'm guessing that you had one or more key people that left which had a negative effect on your business?

Yes but how much are they buying. £100m in 2004 and less than £50m in 2007. Kleeneze pays @ 50% in commission and bonuses so the network received half of what it did.
Huge turnover of distributors.
I actually agree with both sides of this arguement.
What spoiled it for us was our Upline, theirs and theirs. Always spouting the positive things, never listening to a genuine concern.
Blame culture, always that we didnt work hard enough.
Not telling new starts the truth about costs etc.
The company has a bad image because of unscrupulous distributors who didnt give a damn about who they stood on as long as their bionus chque was increasing. If one stops another one starts ( at the bottom)
It is not a 'pyramid scheme' but it does operate in the style of a pyramid.
Got an email tonight from our upline, havent heard from them for two years, I guess they have noticed their bonus is reducing drastically !

geordie_joe

EthanM wrote: »

What were you earning at your peak from Kleeneze?

The question you should be asking is "What were you earning AFTER your peak"?

With Kleeneze you you peak early. You shove a load of books through doors and some people haven't seen them and buy something. Then they realise that the miracle washing up liquid they just paid £7 for is no better than Tesco's own brand that can be bought for pennies. So the next time they get a book they don't buy anything and you've passed your peak.

The only way you can make money from Kleeneze if by persuading other to become agents and get a cut of their earnings for the short while they do it. Then you move on and persuade someone else to sign up, and pay the money.

That said, I have had many discussions with Kleeneze agents in here. All of them claim to have hundreds of customers who have bought from them regularly for years. But never has there been someone in here that has said they have bought from Kleeneze regularly for years.

Say what you like about the big K, but their stuff is over priced cr*p and the only people who will buy it is your friends, family, neighbours and work colleagues. And they will only do it once or twice to help you out. Once they stop buying from you, you have no customers.

I'm sure there will be people who will come and defend Kleeneze, but I'm also so none of them will scan a page of the catalogue and let us see the products and the prices.

Come on, if you want us to join Kleeneze and sell stuff, let us know what that stuff is and what we will be trying to sell it for.

brian09tt

EthanM wrote: »

I'm very glad to hear that you accept that it is not a pyramid.

I too am curious. People are still buying product from the catalogues, so I'm guessing that you had one or more key people that left which had a negative effect on your business?

What were you earning at your peak from Kleeneze?

My best Cheque was just over £2000 which I am sure you can imagine We were delighted with, however 3 of our key people quit and I will add ALL 3 of them worked bloody hard trying to build the business and followed the "system" to the letter.(on top of another 11 who came and didn't do much with it)
it is a constant battle from start to finish, I love the idea, but I honestly feel that its time has come and gone.
In the first couple of years I found it far far easier to sponsor and keep new people, where as now it is near impossible to build and expect the people you already have in to stay for any lenght of time. I got people involved in Rob Forsters seminars and the local Opp meetings, but there is only so much knock backs that people can cope with, even Mr Forster struggles trying to keep people in, even with his huge income and patter.
I personally know of 6 GOLD distributors that have quit, which explains why the number of GOLD and above quoted on the bulk sales never changes, even though more than a 100 Gold Distributors break every year....another 100 quit or fail to keep Gold status.
by the way one of my last COIs was down to £400....a hell of a drop from £2000...when you consider I was doing as much work in both cases!!

EthanM

geordie_joe wrote: »

The question you should be asking is "What were you earning AFTER your peak"?

With Kleeneze you you peak early. You shove a load of books through doors and some people haven't seen them and buy something. Then they realise that the miracle washing up liquid they just paid £7 for is no better than Tesco's own brand that can be bought for pennies. So the next time they get a book they don't buy anything and you've passed your peak.

The only way you can make money from Kleeneze if by persuading other to become agents and get a cut of their earnings for the short while they do it. Then you move on and persuade someone else to sign up, and pay the money.

That said, I have had many discussions with Kleeneze agents in here. All of them claim to have hundreds of customers who have bought from them regularly for years. But never has there been someone in here that has said they have bought from Kleeneze regularly for years.

Say what you like about the big K, but their stuff is over priced cr*p and the only people who will buy it is your friends, family, neighbours and work colleagues. And they will only do it once or twice to help you out. Once they stop buying from you, you have no customers.

I'm sure there will be people who will come and defend Kleeneze, but I'm also so none of them will scan a page of the catalogue and let us see the products and the prices.

Come on, if you want us to join Kleeneze and sell stuff, let us know what that stuff is and what we will be trying to sell it for.

Look some of the people currently critisising Kleeneze at least know what they are talking about, you clearly do not. You like to keep making this claim that only friends and colleagues will buy from Kleeneze and even then only a couple of times. I think you were prepared to bet £10,000 that this was true. Ok well we have a couple of people in the last few posts that are against Kleeneze but as I said actually do know what they are talking about, so lets ask them.

Question for one of the people that did Kleeneze with some success, especially Brian.

Do total strangers that recieve Kleeneze books through their door order?

If they do order, do they only order once or twice or do you actually get customers that go on to order on a regular basis over a lengthy peroid of time?

Will you accept an answer from him GeordieJoe?

By the way the catalogues are available online and have been for a long time, though GeordieJoe I wouldn't expect you to know that, even though you seem to have becone a self appointed expert on the subject of the Kleeneze business.