Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

LHW99

Incidentally BobQ, I'm not sure that remaining would be undemocratic given the movement in public opinion as reflected in the polls. We allow regular general elections where we can protest against a government safe in the knowledge that in a few years time, if we regret our decision, we can change it.

So every time opinions change on the EU we can have another referendum to see if we'd like to be out again? I think that really would get Mr Verhofstat et al wound up.

BobQ

silverwhistle wrote: »

What I find wryly amusing yet at the same time quite scary are the people trying to position the remainers as blameworthy for anything bad that might happen. They seem to be following a long line of government ministers who helped cause the shambles but didn't stick around long enough to take any responsibility.

Brexit is a major step, while many Remainers think it will be damaging to the UK, nobody really knows. But whatever happens its fairly predictable that successes will be laid at the door of the wisdom of leaving and any problems the nation faces will be blamed on remainers, the EU etc.

Incidentally BobQ, I'm not sure that remaining would be undemocratic given the movement in public opinion as reflected in the polls. We allow regular general elections where we can protest against a government safe in the knowledge that in a few years time, if we regret our decision, we can change it. The 2016 vote was in many ways a vote against austerity and being ignored by Westminster, but in the longer term this issue is far more important than a single election.

I agree opinion may have shifted. Unless May measures that with a second referendum, she may well be remembered as the PM who dragged us out of the EU against popular opinion. However if she denies the calls for a second referendum that includes the option of remain,leaving based on her deal would be more democratic than leaving on WTO terms which clearly is only favoured by a small minority of MPs.

I think the EU have generally been pretty clear over the deal: you can't pick and choose the bits of a deal that you want, the cake and eat it argument. I'm not sure why so many people find that hard to understand.

Totally agree, but blaming the EU for our flawed negotiating makes no sense.

BobQ

wunferall wrote: »

And in three paragraphs you have not answered a single point, much less responded to my assertion that remainers like yourself would not accept responsibility for what they have done.

.

It seems that now you are on the verge of Leaving you are starting to look to blame the Remainers for what is now going wrong and what you expect to go wrong in the future.

I do not see why anyone should apologize for how they voted or what they advocate in a free economy.

The Government have failed to negotiate a sensible leaving deal from the day of the referendum. Instead they have fought each other as the ministerial casualties mounted. The idea that the Referendum legitimizes a WTO exit is absurd.

A sensible strategy would in my view have been to say: 52:48? the country wants change but they are not up for leaving without a deal. Lets start by joining EFTA and then we can have a proper debate about what else we want to achieve.

Theophile

MPs defeat government over no-deal preparations

MPs have backed measures designed to thwart preparations for a no-deal Brexit, by defeating the government in the House of Commons.
They backed an amendment to the Finance Bill, which would limit spending on no-deal preparations unless authorised by Parliament, by 303 to 296 votes.

Excellent news. :T
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46803112

Herzlos

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/07/investing/brexit-banks-moving-assets/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_source=fbbusiness&utm_content=2019-01-07T17%3A04%3A20

£800m in assets already moved out of the UK due to Brexit. That's a lot of new business to recover.

movilogo

These are not real assets (i.e. physical e.g. houses, factories etc.) but paper assets.

Why there is no description of exactly what assets were moved and how? Surely they are not moving things via lorries?

There is a good proabability that UK won't leave EU for sometime (transition period could be very long or UK may not leave EU at all). I bet banks will switfly move all those assets back to UK.


Sensational news but not much substance.

.string.

Theophile wrote: »

MPs defeat government over no-deal preparations

Excellent news. :T
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46803112

I don't get the political logic of that move; let's consider the party political aspect.

Supposing, for example, the Government were to ask for funds to pre-order vital medicine stockpiles and suppose that were defeated.

It might be effective if it were totally within Government control as to whether there is a deal off not.

Who would get the blame when someone dies as a result of blocking necessary drugs? I suggest it would be the party/parties that opposed the purchase.

Other scenarios are available.

It's no good arguing that it is just a measure to stop a No Deal Scenario because such cannot be avoided by purely Government action, the EU has to agree, as does the little matter of a majority in parliament.

The trouble is that there spoiling tactics to not look beyond giving the Government a black eye.

PhilE

Arklight wrote: »

Exactly. Brexit is an ongoing narrative of disgruntled victim-hood. Foreigners were to blame for everything two years ago. They're to blame for everything now, and they'll be to blame for everything in the future.

And as remainers, we can't let our economy and national security become threatened, because of what essentially is racism and ignorance.

Our ancestors in WW2 fought against fascism, and voted for the EU. It can't be undone because of chav UK.

cogito

PhilE wrote: »

Our ancestors in WW2 fought against fascism, and voted for the EU. It can't be undone because of chav UK.

When, exactly, did our ancestors vote for the EU?

Herzlos

1973. Though some were old enough to have voted without ancestral help; anyone under 61 at the referendum was too young to have voted first time round.


And now I'm sure you'll go on about how that wasn't the same EU.

.string. wrote: »

Supposing, for example, the Government were to ask for funds to pre-order vital medicine stockpiles and suppose that were defeated.

It might be effective if it were totally within Government control as to whether there is a deal off not.

The government is 100% in control of whether there is a deal or not.



I suspect they'll wave through stuff like medical supplies, but may be less likely to vote to approve spending £100k trying to play at a traffic jam, or £114m in ferry contracts and so on. There's what, £3bn earmarked for no-deal preparations?


Though clearly the whole plan is to make no deal harder to achieve.