Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

kabayiri

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

Do we remain in a Customs Union? - Yes
Are we still subject to the ECJ? - Yes
Is there a time limit on the WA? - No
Will we have to follow all EU rules including any new ones? Yes

And you seriously think we're leaving. Without a time limited legal backstop, the EU will never allow us to escape their clutches.

It becomes a recipe for a political power play.

Politicians from other EU states will be able to win local support by backing populist issues which affect us, like the Gibraltar issue. Macron would also use the opportunity to barter further concessions.

We would indeed be stuck. ('Handing' back control)

andrewf75

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

Do we remain in a Customs Union? - Yes
Are we still subject to the ECJ? - Yes
Is there a time limit on the WA? - No
Will we have to follow all EU rules including any new ones? Yes

And you seriously think we're leaving. Without a time limited legal backstop, the EU will never allow us to escape their clutches.

I don't think we're leaving, we ARE leaving under the terms of the proposed deal. 100% Fact.

That would be the case even if we were permanently remaining in the single market or customs union, which we're not.

andrewf75

kabayiri wrote: »

It becomes a recipe for a political power play.

Politicians from other EU states will be able to win local support by backing populist issues which affect us, like the Gibraltar issue. Macron would also use the opportunity to barter further concessions.

We would indeed be stuck. ('Handing' back control)

That will happen anyway, in fact even more so if we leave without a deal and member countries may have less goodwill towards us than they do now.

Rinoa

phillw wrote: »

and yet the polls show a majority for remain.

The polls showed a majority for remain right up to the day we actually voted.

phillw

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

the EU will never allow us to escape their clutches.

What happened to you, to think that? The ECJ and EU has been the best time for UK citizens that we have ever lived through. You seem to be scared that they protect your rights.

The EU are just bored with us. We want all the benefits, none of the responsibility. We can't have that, no matter how much we blackmail them.

They will let us leave, but we still have responsibilities because of the good friday agreement. Which includes the ECHR being incorporated into NI law, but that is completely separate from the EU.

The withdrawal agreement is only to protect us during the long drawn out process of negotiating a new deal, we can walk away without a withdrawal agreement if we want. It's not in our interest to do so, but cutting off our nose to spite our face is the new normal it seems.

Herzlos

Rinoa wrote: »

The polls showed a majority for remain right up to the day we actually voted.

True, sort of, most of them were inconclusive within a margin of error.


Polling now has consistently shown a move away from Leave to Remain, a small one but consistent movement in that direction.


Not that it matters too much; any option is political suicide.

PhilE

wunferall wrote: »

This is a great example of what UK remainers are unable to grasp.
Forget your 450 million, these - despite being members of Club EU - 450 million are split amongst 27 different countries.
And the EU does not care about the individual countries which comprise the EU.

That's why Greece is the new @rse-end of Europe.
That's why Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Italy and many more are seeing a rise in populism.
They, unlike you, realise that this "the EU is so important" mindset as all smoke and mirrors.

So you only buy British produced food, British cars, British washing machines?

No, you eat food from the EU, drive a foreign car(Audi/Mercedes perhaps?), and if you buy crappy UK washing machines good luck to you.

Survive one week on just British goods and services. I challenge any Brexiter to do that. No Miele, no Mercs, no EU nothing. In fact, you Brexiters should be made to do it for one week. You'll be crying for the EU after 24 hours.

As you probably will be after Brexit.

phillw

Herzlos wrote: »

Not that it matters too much; any option is political suicide.

Right. When WTO doesn't lead to everyone getting their own unicorn, then even the leavers will feel cheated.

wunferall wrote: »

Now I personally do indeed dislike the EU, though I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate them.

A lot of leavers don't want to go as far as saying how they really feel, because it makes them look bad. Keep it casual right?

wunferall wrote: »

could sometimes lead one to think that those EU bod's really don't like the British very much.

I think you're getting confused between not liking us and not pandering to our over inflated ego.

wunferall wrote: »

I suppose could be said to be the destruction of every member country's individualism since already these countries must abide by the rules as set out and agreed by others, whether they like it or not.

How is a country's individualism related to workers rights and pollution?

I wish leavers would grow up, it's like watching a kevin and perry sketch with 51% of the population playing kevin.

wunferall wrote: »

Increasingly frequently now others do not like it either, hence the rise of populism across the EU.

Populism is a result of the 2008 financial crisis, when times are hard then blame others.
The nazi's knew this, trump, leave & all the populist parties in europe know it too.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

What happened to you, to think that? The ECJ and EU has been the best time for UK citizens that we have ever lived through. You seem to be scared that they protect your rights.

The EU are just bored with us. We want all the benefits, none of the responsibility. We can't have that, no matter how much we blackmail them.

They will let us leave, but we still have responsibilities because of the good friday agreement. Which includes the ECHR being incorporated into NI law, but that is completely separate from the EU.

The withdrawal agreement is only to protect us during the long drawn out process of negotiating a new deal, we can walk away without a withdrawal agreement if we want. It's not in our interest to do so, but cutting off our nose to spite our face is the new normal it seems.

I can't believe that I'm responding to this as I've often read your postS in disbelief that anyone can be so deluded. If the past 45 years have been the best times ever for UK citizens, it has been despite and not because of the EU. The UK has always been perfectly capable of protecting the rights of its own citizens and I cannot think of a single thing that the EU has done to enhance them that wouldn’t have happened anyway or wasn’t promoted by the UK.

Health and Safety laws (widely disregarded across the EUJ, workers rights (greater in the UK than most other countries) were enshrined in UK law before most EU members thought of them) and Environmental law all originated in the UK.

Germany burns more lignite than all countries in the world bar one and destroys ancient woodlands to dig it up. I,ve witnessed breaches of H&S law in the EU that would lead to company directors in the UK being jailed. I spend a lot of time in Greece and see every day the misery of youth unemployment inflicted on the country by the EU which imposed austerity that will never go away.

That's the reality of the EU that you admire so much. And you ask Moe the Bartender what happened to him to make him think the way he and millions of others do. The sooner we are free of this malign, disfunctional, failing organisation, the better we will be.

PhilE

cogito wrote: »

I can't believe that I'm responding to this as I've often read your postS in disbelief that anyone can be so deluded. If the past 45 years have been the best times ever for UK citizens, it has been despite and not because of the EU. The UK has always been perfectly capable of protecting the rights of its own citizens and I cannot think of a single thing that the EU has done to enhance them that wouldn’t have happened anyway or wasn’t promoted by the UK.

Health and Safety laws (widely disregarded across the EUJ, workers rights (greater in the UK than most other countries) were enshrined in UK law before most EU members thought of them) and Environmental law all originated in the UK.

Germany burns more lignite than all countries in the world bar one and destroys ancient woodlands to dig it up. I,ve witnessed breaches of H&S law in the EU that would lead to company directors in the UK being jailed. I spend a lot of time in Greece and see every day the misery of youth unemployment inflicted on the country by the EU which imposed austerity that will never go away.

That's the reality of the EU that you admire so much. And you ask Moe the Bartender what happened to him to make him think the way he and millions of others do. The sooner we are free of this malign, disfunctional, failing organisation, the better we will be.

Oh please, you saw Syrian refugees on the TeeVee, and though Brexit would prevent them entering your white and pure land.