Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

buglawton

Herzlos wrote: »

It makes a pretty clear distinction that the vote needs to comes from the people and not just Parliament though. I can't really think of a better term before "follow up" or "2nd" referendum. Can you?

Everything about Brexit is emotionally charged, that's why the country has spent 2.5 years arguing about it and getting nowhere.

Oh right so did the Referendum result come from 'Just Parliament'?

Thrugelmir

BucksLady wrote: »

What annoys me the most about this whole business, is that many issues (homelessnes, poverty, social care etc) facing this country have been pushed aside - they should not have been and there's now a time bomb waiting to go off.

Look across the Channel. The issues are far from unique. There's growing resentment from what could be described as the growing underclass. Who aren't benefiting from the gravy train.

BucksLady

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Look across the Channel. The issues are far from unique. There's growing resentment from what could be described as the growing underclass. Who aren't benefiting from the gravy train.

I didn't say they were unique. My point being that too much time has in my opinion been wasted on matters relating to Brexit and many of the serious issues facing this country have been pushed aside.

Zero_Gravitas

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

It sounds like you don't realise that the ESA (European Space Agency in case you didn't know) is not part of the EU's institutional framework despite the EU trying to make it so. It is autonomous. Do you know what that means and if so why would you assume they would rather remain in the EU?

Some projects receive EU funding (this is where Galileo enters the equation) and so there might be areas where the UK could see participation stop. But conversely this could also lead to the cessation of UK funding for some areas.
From my readings it looks like (apart from Galileo where even this might end up being a boost to the UK if the UK/Oz/NZ do go ahead & build their own) one area where Brexit will have little to no impact. In fact some, like Skyrora and Reaction Engines, are already revolutionising their sectors and have great potential for impressive future growth.

Ah - the mistake you’ve made here is assuming that because people work for an organisation that it outside of the EU’s institutional framework (not withstanding the fact that the EU is the largest single donor to the ESA’s budget) then they must somehow not wish to remain part of the EU. Which makes no sense whatsoever :huh: :huh: :huh: (smilies inserted because I know how much you like them )

And whilst it is admittedly empirical evidence, my line of work brings me into contact with a lot of scientists - including those working in the space sector; and they are unanimous in thinking that leaving the EU is a very bad idea.

Enterprise_1701C

Why is everyone saying Corbyn voted Remain?

He says he voted Remain, but nobody KNOWS how anyone voted.

I would not trust him as far as I could throw him, and I would not ever assume he ever told the truth.

Corbyn is a puppet being manipulated by momentum. Never forget that it is the unions that want him in power so that if he got in we would be thrust back to the 70s when you couldn't move for strikes, flying pickets would come back in, we would no longer get notice of strikes. And does anyone else remember how awful the trains were under the auspices of the unions?

Some people on here think it would be wonderful if everything was nationalised, I would love to know if those people are old enough to remember the days when it was. We were "the sick man of Europe"

Throughout the 1970s there was a great deal of political unrest in the UK. Industrial output was falling and high inflation was outstripping any wage rises. There were constant strikes and upheaval as workers pushed for better pay and for the governments of the period to find solutions to enable full employment for the workforce. The 3 day week was introduced, to save electricity in the UK. It came into effect in January 1974 and lasted until March of the same year, which was the period during which the OPEC nations restricted oil exports to the West.

If this labour "party" got in that is what we would be facing, the country would be on it's knees within a year.

Herzlos

buglawton wrote: »

Oh right so did the Referendum result come from 'Just Parliament'?

Did I say it did?
The only outstanding step for Brexit in terms of approval is a parliamentary vote, this week. Since none of the outcomes seem to satisfy what we understood as leaving, the people need to be consulted.

Why are you so scared of democracy? We all know if the result had been 2% the other way Brexiteers would be campaigning for a 2nd vote too. Farage even promised it.

Enterprise_1701C

Herzlos wrote: »

Did I say it did?
The only outstanding step for Brexit in terms of approval is a parliamentary vote, this week. Since none of the outcomes seem to satisfy what we understood as leaving, the people need to be consulted.

Why are you so scared of democracy? We all know if the result had been 2% the other way Brexiteers would be campaigning for a 2nd vote too. Farage even promised it.

And you would be saying that that would be against democracy.

gfplux

Filo25 wrote: »

Fortunately I will be both when I finally get round to doing my Irish passport.

Just imagine we ended up with Hard Brexit + Corbyn government, I really might appreciate my freedom of movement then !

If your opportunity for an Irish Passport derives from the Good Friday Agreement things may change if the GFA collapses.
I would get your new passport ASAP.

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

If your opportunity for an Irish Passport derives from the Good Friday Agreement things may change if the GFA collapses.
I would get your new passport ASAP.

Rubbish. Eligibility for an Irish passport depends on ancestry and has nothing to do with the GFA.

Not that the GFA will collapse. Why on earth would it?

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

And you would be saying that that would be against democracy.

I don't think I could ever say that asking the people what they want is against democracy.


I understand the fear that this is just Remainers sabotaging Brexit; but it's really not. It's about making sure the people have some say over what the country will look like.
I can also understand the fear that this opens the flood gates to a 3rd, 4th, etc referendum until we get an answer that Remainers like, just like the EU is (falsely) accused of doing. But if that's what happens it's because the result is so close so as to be inconclusive, then we really need to do something to get a conclusive answer.


Something vaguely conclusive either way will kill off the argument either way. There are only really 3 outcomes: We still really want to leave, we're still torn, or we now really don't want to leave.



The only real concern that I can see (and think highlights the need for another referendum) is the fear of Brexit being overturned - if it's likely to happen (and all the evidence points that way), then we really should overturn it whilst we can instead of leaving and rejoining in short order.


Like I said, it's win-win. It's also a win from a political point of view as it means May can dodge any responsibility by citing the referendum. The fact she's been doing a tour and producing propaganda makes it sound like they are preparing for a 2nd referendum. I think it's the logical conclusion from her deals inevitable defeat on the 11th.