Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Rubbish. Eligibility for an Irish passport depends on ancestry and has nothing to do with the GFA.

Isn't the GFA the reason why people on either side of the border are eligible for an Eire passport?

Not that the GFA will collapse. Why on earth would it?

"No deal" Brexit is very, very likely to cause all sorts of violations of the GFA (as I understand it), so there's a very real risk of it collapsing. How you can interact on both sides unhindered when the laws/regulations are different on either side is going to be a hard one to rationalize, and that's even before any kind of border infrastructure.

Therefor if the GFA collapses, people with NI ancestry may lose the ability to gain an Eire (EU) passport, if Eire/EU decide to play hardball.


Best get the applications in early for those that can get them. Though I do find no small amount of irony in people voting to restrict freedom of movement and then going and using a loophole to re-gain that freedom of movement.

kabayiri

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

...
And whilst it is admittedly empirical evidence, my line of work brings me into contact with a lot of scientists - including those working in the space sector; and they are unanimous in thinking that leaving the EU is a very bad idea.

When the government undertakes a nation wide referendum, there is an implicit acceptance that the vote of a scientist carries the same weight as the vote of a delivery driver.

Somehow, the remain campaigners had to make the case to delivery drivers that scientists matter (and vice versa). I don't recall any of this happening. Osborne just talked in number terms, linked to some point in time a dozen years from now.

Lungboy

Herzlos wrote: »

Isn't the GFA the reason why people on either side of the border are eligible for an Eire passport?

Anyone can get Irish citizenship if they can prove they have an Irish parent or Irish grandparent. I don't think that's reliant on the GFA as it applies worldwide afaik.

In other news.....

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

When the government undertakes a nation wide referendum, there is an implicit acceptance that the vote of a scientist carries the same weight as the vote of a delivery driver.

Somehow, the remain campaigners had to make the case to delivery drivers that scientists matter (and vice versa). I don't recall any of this happening. Osborne just talked in number terms, linked to some point in time a dozen years from now.

I don't think anyone said that anyones vote has a different weighting - all votes are equal, and will always be equal.


Many made the case that when it comes to complex details, experts opinions carry more weight than a non-expert (because we can only know so much, that's why we have experts). But from a campaign that was "sick of experts" it's somehow become a taboo to know anything.



You'd presumably prioritize medical advice from a Surgeon over a Tree Surgeon, or car diagnostic advice from a mechanic over a chemistry teacher? So why doesn't the same apply to economics?

Lungboy wrote: »

Anyone can get Irish citizenship if they can prove they have an Irish parent or Irish grandparent. I don't think that's reliant on the GFA as it applies worldwide afaik.

There seems to be a provision in the GFA for NI citizens to be treated as Irish:


"The Belfast/Good Friday Agreement (GFA) recognised the birthright of the 'people of Northern Ireland' to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may choose, and accordingly hold British and Irish Citizenship. This is incorporated in the UK-Ireland GFA treaty1 and is legally binding."
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/caj.org.uk/2018/04/19122918/GFA-equality-of-British-and-Irish-citizenship-in-NI-post-Brexit-April-2018-1.pdf



So I assume that without it, people with NI ancestry wouldn't otherwise be granted Eire citizenship.

In other news.....

It's almost inevitable that it's reversible, but we don't have the conclusive statement yet.

Lungboy

Herzlos wrote: »

There seems to be a provision in the GFA for NI citizens to be treated as Irish:

Yes, that's a different issue to someone wanted to get an Irish passport i think.

Herzlos wrote: »

It's almost inevitable that it's reversible, but we don't have the conclusive statement yet.

I don't think it's inevitable at all, and I fully expected the court to rule against it to stop people like Orban using over and over to try and get things out of the EU.

Herzlos

Lungboy wrote: »

Yes, that's a different issue to someone wanted to get an Irish passport i think.

It is, but I think it's what GF was getting at; some people may lose access to an Eire passport if they were relying on the GFA to get it.

I don't think it's inevitable at all, and I fully expected the court to rule against it to stop people like Orban using over and over to try and get things out of the EU.

How often would a trick like that work?


As it stands I think it's completely reversible, but after Brexit is concluded (one way or another) I can see them re-wording it to include some kind of penalty clause or exclusions.

Lungboy

It's not clear either way, so for me it's down to intent, and the chap that wrote it always meant for it to be revokeable.

Zero_Gravitas

kabayiri wrote: »

When the government undertakes a nation wide referendum, there is an implicit acceptance that the vote of a scientist carries the same weight as the vote of a delivery driver.

Somehow, the remain campaigners had to make the case to delivery drivers that scientists matter (and vice versa). I don't recall any of this happening. Osborne just talked in number terms, linked to some point in time a dozen years from now.

I don’t disagree with you - I was just countering the stretching yawner’s strange suggestion that if you work for an organisation that is not part of the EU, then you must want to leave the EU.

qwert_yuiop

You’ve been able to get an Irish passport if you’re from Northern Ireland since irish passports have been available. With the GFA, the Irish republic abandoned its long standing claim to Northern Ireland. That point in the agreement makes it clear that the passport right was not to be rescinded. This right extends to those whose grandparent was born in Northern Ireland.

phillw

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

You don't do enough research before posting your anti-British bile to warrant the polite replies you get.

None of my posts are anti british, they just aren't delusional arrogance.

I haven't ever seen a polite reply from a leaver. None of them have ever apologised for what they have done.

The space ports were planned before we left the EU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_commercial_spaceport_competition

They are still continuing because everyone is hoping for brexit to be cancelled or brexit in name only. Nobody wants to abandon the sunk costs yet, just in case. But they will be pointless if we go no deal or whatever rees mogg thinks he can get. All of the progress we've made in the space industry could disappear if it makes more financial sense to move out of the UK. We've lost industries before and there is nothing to stop it happening again.

What we should be asking is why the government is wasting OUR money funding a space port? If it is such a good idea then people would be lining up to invest money in it. To me it sounds like flag waving to save face.

I find leavers so disingenuous in their arguments. It's the same for any of the "ner ner ner, you predicted this and it hasn't happened yet". When someone can explain what "brexit means brexit" entails then we'll know what the outcome will be.

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

Thankfully what you think will make zero difference to the outcome.

Unfortunately none of what any of us thinks is going to make a difference to the outcome the way things are going. Which is pretty undemocratic if you think about it. Especially when you take into account how undemocratic the original referendum was. You don't think so, because enough people believed the lies that you got the result you wanted.

About 30% of the population of the UK voted to leave. You don't have any mandate. Until you are honest and acknowledge that, then you're not going to be able to see how your attitude stinks.

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

Why? They already made the decision on 23rd June 2016; there is no need to ask again until after that decision has been fulfilled.

According to brexiteers if May gets her deal through then we'll be stuck in the EU because of the backstop, if she doesn't they'll cancel brexit. That wouldn't fulfil the referendum result, so no need to ask ever again. That is fine with me, what I don't get is why YOU would be ok with that. As according to you democracy means never being allowed to change your mind, then that is locked in forever. Don't even think about coming back asking for another chance to leave.