Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Enterprise_1701C

Filo25 wrote: »

Actually I'm in favour of the status quo largely because nobody has yet come up with a credible form of Brexit model that would meet the demands of Leavers (less shared sovereignty etc) while also not leaving us substantially poorer in most realistic economic models.

Equally can anyone explain to me how Brexit is likely to help us deal with the geopolitical threat posed by a growing, confident China?

There is not such thing as a "status quo" within the eu.

ukcarper

Lungboy wrote: »

We might find out today.

Not exactly being allows to revoke article 50 is not the same as things returning to exactly as they were before.

Lungboy

That's why i qualified it with "might", the ECJ could rule on what happens if we revoke A50 as well as whether we can revoke it unilaterally as they are so intertwined.

andrewf75

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

"Leave the EU" wan't clear enough for remainers apparently!
:rotfl:
Makes you wonder if any remainers are divorced because according to their logic it means leaving your partner really means staying where you are and still doing what they say.

Its leavers whose logic fails here. If you get divorced and want arrangements to see your kids, then you *do* have to continue to go along with certain rules.

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

There is not such thing as a "status quo" within the eu.

Going by that logic there's no status quo with anything; everything changes over time.


Status quo isn't the EU Frozen on 25th May 2016. It's the pre-existing position and frameworks, where we continue to shape and continue along with the EU.


The change on the other hand, is still almost entirely unknown.

Lungboy

Just wow.

Herzlos

ukcarper wrote: »

Not exactly being allows to revoke article 50 is not the same as things returning to exactly as they were before.

"As they were before" is gone. The world has changed in the 2 years since we voted. We can't go back to 2016 are more than we can go back to 1973.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

...
It should have at least been a factor, as you can expect poor results when asking someone to do something they aren't any good at. For instance, you might need your appendix out, so you'd answer "yes" to "should we remove your appendix?" but would you still answer yes if you were asked by a mechanic and not a surgeon?

Since it was almost a given than the Tories would screw up the Brexit negotiations (admittedly even the most skeptical couldn't imagine how badly), was it a good idea to let them try it?
...

I didn't anticipate Cameron resigning immediately after the referendum.

I didn't anticipate a General Election between then and now which has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of Brexit.

I didn't anticipate the Tories electing a clear Remainer to lead the Brexit era.

I'm afraid it's the reality that we all enter every political election/referendum on the basis of good faith. We don't really have any other option.

In some ways Brexit has been useful. No other recent event has shown up the competence (or complete lack of) of our mainstream politicians.

Maybe they are really just middle layer bureaucrats now, with the key decisions increasingly being made in the EU.

I actually admire Barnier. He has done his job to the letter. He has refused to give an inch.

A_Pandiculation

andrewf75 wrote: »

Its leavers whose logic fails here. If you get divorced and want arrangements to see your kids, then you *do* have to continue to go along with certain rules.

It's remainers whose logic fails here. There are no "kids".
There's no mortgage either BTW.

Since you appear to like analogies though:
One side (let's call it "EU") wants the right to come & have a shower when they want and to use the washing machine again when they want, forever, but at your expense. And you must supply all that's needed to accomplish that.
The other side (let's call it "UK") wants the right to use your dishwasher in perpetuity.

Neither side needs these things ....... they would just make each other's lives easier.
You would think, that being the case, that agreement could be reached.
In this case however one side also wants your house keys forever so that in future they could (if they wished) do things you don't want them to do.
The big question is .... do you trust them?
That could be a difficulty when they have proven untrustworthy before.

:cool:

A_Pandiculation

kabayiri wrote: »

I didn't anticipate Cameron resigning immediately after the referendum.

I didn't anticipate a General Election between then and now which has achieved absolutely nothing in terms of Brexit.

I didn't anticipate the Tories electing a clear Remainer to lead the Brexit era.

I'm afraid it's the reality that we all enter every political election/referendum on the basis of good faith. We don't really have any other option.

In some ways Brexit has been useful. No other recent event has shown up the competence (or complete lack of) of our mainstream politicians.

Maybe they are really just middle layer bureaucrats now, with the key decisions increasingly being made in the EU.

I actually admire Barnier. He has done his job to the letter. He has refused to give an inch.

I quite agree.
I wish I had faith enough in our parliament to do likewise but so far I have seen nothing to suggest that they will uphold the will of the people.
As I said recently, if they don't then the next general election will prove very interesting.
And probably not in a way that many current MP's are going to like.